I'll probably get one of these, the media features are what's most important since I don't play games much. I'm hoping it has sufficient features to replace both the 360 and wdtv unit. One less box on the tv stand is always a good thing.
i never said i was happy about it. i said i was fine with it and i can understand why they made the decisions i've talked about. i don't think this warrants the crazy amounts of rage that it's getting. it truly is simple business, through and through. you're ignorant if you can't see it. the used game thing is just people being cheap wanting to play games on the cheap without paying the producer. almost like pirating, i don't care if you pirate or not, i was simply pointing out the business of it and why they changed it. i could understand the rage if they wanted to charge $100 now or something. not to mention the lack of used games willl simply just put more pressure on price cuts which will lead to cheaper games anyways. so the entire so and so can't afford a new $60 title all the time is stupid. i haven't played a game in months but i just bought tomb raider new for less than $30 and it came out what, 2-3 months ago? people just don't think, it's nuts, but is very typical.
end of the day just a bunch unhappy people want to complain about stupid shit on the internet. you don't like it, don't buy it, but 90% of the complainers still will and will probably enjoy it.
as i said in my first post the most important thing for gamers should have been that they said 16 new games with 8 new franchises. if both sne and msft can deliver on a handful of new franchises this will be a huge win for gamers. but no, everyone rather complain before they even know the entire picture.
#1531828 by Xi0nic (Power User) at 2013-05-23 00:44:17 (2 months ago) - [Report]
What about books, music, movies... You can buy those once and then pass them around to your friends forever... Gaming is no different. As long as the disc is in the drive, the game should run. That's how PC gaming worked for 10+ years. Probably still works that way.
I wouldn't know, I'm a pirate.
Same thing applies to pretty much any physical object. Televisions, cars, etc. You buy them once, you can use them, and then give them or sell them to other people at your leisure.
What about Steam, though? Can I give my Steam account to a friend, and they can play my games? I assume each account can only be logged in once, though. Same principle.
It's bullshit through and through.
You buy the product once, it's your's to do with what you please!
What about books, music, movies... You can buy those once and then pass them around to your friends forever... Gaming is no different. As long as the disc is in the drive, the game should run. That's how PC gaming worked for 10+ years. Probably still works that way.
I wouldn't know, I'm a pirate.
and all those media platforms are trying their best to stop that as well. digital dist is the holy grail for all that shit. i'm not here to argue either way, just tell it like it is in this business. they would probably argue you don't actually own anything past the experience and you need to pay for the experience per person or something. as a free market, piece of entertainment it's their decision to make. consumers will buy what they want. i can understand them wanting to stop other companies from taking huge profits from games the publishers make. earnings report show it's been pretty rough out there, games need to sell millions and millions of copies to go in the black sometimes. pro tip: you can't even make mediocre games without turning a profit for very long.
something like a physical object is an entirely different story than a digital software experience. number one reason being that in a digital platform it can essentially be brand new every time. not tarnished from use warranting a second hand price. but again i don't really give a shit either way, way more important stuff to worry about than that. and as i said i was simply pointing out why they did it and from a business perspective it's not horrible. only horrible for the stingy consumer and they don't really are about them, nor does any big business.
and if that big business talk makes your butt hurt, welcome to the real world.
Last edited by slacker4life at 2013-05-23 02:39:38
I'd rather be butt hurt and refuse to be squeezed for every penny than roll over and take it like a bitch while cheering "yay big business i love you". Digital distribution is different than physical media and being told you don't own your own physical items is always going to be a bitter pill to swallow.
Forcing you to connect to the internet once a day is bullshit. I lost my phone and internet for over a week earlier this year due to engineers fucking around at the end of the road, as someone who works for an ISP i was in the best position to get it fixed and it still took over a week. There's 0 mobile coverage where i live either for 3g access. Luckily my xbox and jtagged xbox had a back log of games for me to work through and steam could boot up offline so they didn't turn in to paperweights.
There's only one hope left for a decent "console" this generation
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#1531852 by Dexter (Power User) at 2013-05-23 05:09:57 (2 months ago) - [Report]
You constantly keep saying "big business", but you don't seem to understand what you are talking about, you didn't even understand what I was saying.
Let me make it a bit more graphic for you. (I'd do a puppet show, but this is the internet so text will have to suffice)
Imagine a pie, let's call it "Potential customers" that Microsoft is trying to sell, and every time they "piss off" a "potential customer-base" you eat a piece of pie and they have less of it to sell to people.
Now imagine that from that very big pie you eat the pieces that were for people troubled by the economy, people that just aren't interested in your new product, "core gamers" that you pissed off with your decision to be all about "TV" and not show any games, people without or with bad Internet or people travelling a lot, people that primarily buy from game Retailers, people that will decide on other things for gaming (including Android consoles, PC gaming/SteamBox, mobile, etc.), people that are just fine with your last products as they were, people that are interested in backwards compatibility, people that don't want to pay a monthly fee to be able to pay Online and see ads all day and poor people that might buy your console if they could get cheaper games, rent them or share them with siblings and other family members by pissing them off or not offering anything that they want.
Okay, you with me so far? Now you've got a rather small portion of pie. You can add the pieces of pie that would correspond to people paying ~$500 for a set-top box for the sole reason of watching TV or sports.
You see, at the end of the day people buy a gaming console because of the games: http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/ , even the Wii sold the most in the last "console generation" because of their games that managed to target casual gamers and pensioners (even though they proved to not be a viable long-term market in the end). Wiis were rather the thing in retirement homes and the likes.
I think it's an immense error in judgement to think that they can survive by making the device about people "watching sports and TV", since those aren't the ones buying $500 game consoles.
Their executives probably looked at a chart of mined data and have seen that people "use their Xbox 360 more for entertainment than games": http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/arch … aming.aspx and made wrong causal projections and decisions from that data point.
The immense error in judgement is that they believe this is what people buy consoles and spend upwards of $500 and pay a subscription for.
If they believe that alienating the people that are most likely to buy their product and are often in the position to decide which "console-toy" a family environment gets is a good thing then their marketing people are beyond stupid.
It's not even that they concentrate on "this is an entertainment center now/this is for watching TV now", but that they seem to be actively alienating large amounts of their potential business and customers with the decisions they are making in regards to used games/lending games, Always-Online, no backwards compatibility etc. even among those "TV viewers" they are apparently only targeting people with HDTVs and HDMI-connector anymore and while it might not exclude a very large number of people it is again less people interested in the product: http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/05/xbox … non-hdtvs/ Only two thirds of the US have HDTVs at this point: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/articl … _HDTVs.php not to go into other regions of the world.
People can watch Netflix and ESPN or generally TV on a lot of things without subscribing to Xbox Live or getting a $500 box. Heck they'll even have to compete with their own and SONYs previous efforts on that front, which will probably even get price-cuts.
Not only that, but they'll be competing for that market segment with the likes of Samsung, SONY (who have their own in-house content, electronics (TVs) and distribution), Google and Apple amongst others and this is what they bring to the table for the next ~10 or so years.
11mb gif in the middle of a freaking page, even with fibre im going to tell you to cut that shit out now. -.-
Edit: Now that ive manged to read the thread without retarded pics (adblock <3)
rudeboi wrote:
if anything i could see this driving piracy more, to date has there been a unhackable console?
While i agree with the first half of your sentence, in short, yes, you do recall how long it took the PS3 to get cracked? I'm not saying it was unhackable, but 4+yrs is a long time to await said cracked model. So while you are not wrong, thats not exactly viable in terms of, oh lets just wait for the crack.
I will say given the core system has moved to an architecture people know well they could have an interesting time locking this down. Given the shit about 2nd hand games, rentals (yes i rent to boost my gamerscore and play games i would literally play once, get over it!) An the pure lack of backwards compatibility even in the slightest, again i know previous consoles didnt have backwards compatibility much, previous consoles also didnt have DLC and arcade games. The idea of the addon box to support back compat and arcade titles was fine with me, even if it was an addon and guess prices not exactly being cheap either. But i am not leaving my 360 in the dust any time soon, i have stupid amounts of games in my back catalogue to play, was hoping i could move this system to another room and have the new one do everything the old could and the new next gen stuff. As it is now even given my gamerscore which for whatever reason i now treasure, i will be looking at both sides very closely, because as of now, my gamerscore is the only thing keeping me to xbox. They have always had their exclusives, gears, halo etc, i like them, but i still don't have halo 4, nor judgement, they are fun but they are not titles that make me want to stay at all. Exclusive to xbox they may be, exclusive to me they are not.
E3 will tell though as we have only seen hardware and they have a whole lot of new exclusives lined up, 16 total and 8, i think i read, being brand new IP's.
I have never been partial to sticking with a console on the basis of i like this brand, i will jump ship if i feel something is better and i will vote with cash. I'll admint again they roped me into a corner with gamerscore, but i am not going to buy into something if thats the ONLY thing keeping me there. Which right now, it is.
11mb gif in the middle of a freaking page, even with fibre im going to tell you to cut that shit out now. -.-
Edit: Now that ive manged to read the thread without retarded pics (adblock <3)
rudeboi wrote:
if anything i could see this driving piracy more, to date has there been a unhackable console?
While i agree with the first half of your sentence, in short, yes, you do recall how long it took the PS3 to get cracked? I'm not saying it was unhackable, but 4+yrs is a long time to await said cracked model. So while you are not wrong, thats not exactly viable in terms of, oh lets just wait for the crack.
I will say given the core system has moved to an architecture people know well they could have an interesting time locking this down. Given the shit about 2nd hand games, rentals (yes i rent to boost my gamerscore and play games i would literally play once, get over it!) An the pure lack of backwards compatibility even in the slightest, again i know previous consoles didnt have backwards compatibility much, previous consoles also didnt have DLC and arcade games. The idea of the addon box to support back compat and arcade titles was fine with me, even if it was an addon and guess prices not exactly being cheap either. But i am not leaving my 360 in the dust any time soon, i have stupid amounts of games in my back catalogue to play, was hoping i could move this system to another room and have the new one do everything the old could and the new next gen stuff. As it is now even given my gamerscore which for whatever reason i now treasure, i will be looking at both sides very closely, because as of now, my gamerscore is the only thing keeping me to xbox. They have always had their exclusives, gears, halo etc, i like them, but i still don't have halo 4, nor judgement, they are fun but they are not titles that make me want to stay at all. Exclusive to xbox they may be, exclusive to me they are not.
E3 will tell though as we have only seen hardware and they have a whole lot of new exclusives lined up, 16 total and 8, i think i read, being brand new IP's.
I have never been partial to sticking with a console on the basis of i like this brand, i will jump ship if i feel something is better and i will vote with cash. I'll admint again they roped me into a corner with gamerscore, but i am not going to buy into something if thats the ONLY thing keeping me there. Which right now, it is.
i meant more that it would driver a lot more hackers to the scene as being honest no-one likes DRM
#1531879 by garyb (Power User) at 2013-05-23 09:34:45 (2 months ago) - [Report]
nerd4life wrote:
in a rage about used game sales and not letting your poor ass friends play the same games? again it's a business, they need to make money on their products, you'd do the same thing. it just means if you're a cheap piece of shit maybe you have painfully wait a few months for a price drop. show me where tons of game studios are raking in cash and this is just a ploy to make even more money. big title studios can have their years be positive or negative based on the sales of one game. we have less and less big studios all the time. all that can flourish right now are behemoths and small indy camps most everything in between is struggling.
this shit is laughable that so many people are clueless and so angry over simple realities of life.
Waiting on a price drop makes you a cheap peace of shit PMSL no its called not getting ripped off by greedy ass developers. £40-£50 for just one game is a lot of money to start with, now if games were all priced at £20 this wouldn't be a big deal. Bottom line is yes a lot of gamers will just wait for a price drop and i hope it hurts them like hell because this isn't business this is all about squeezing as much money as they can out of us all. Game studios go out of business not because of the second hand market but because they make shit games.
in a rage about used game sales and not letting your poor ass friends play the same games? again it's a business, they need to make money on their products, you'd do the same thing. it just means if you're a cheap piece of shit maybe you have painfully wait a few months for a price drop. show me where tons of game studios are raking in cash and this is just a ploy to make even more money. big title studios can have their years be positive or negative based on the sales of one game. we have less and less big studios all the time. all that can flourish right now are behemoths and small indy camps most everything in between is struggling.
this shit is laughable that so many people are clueless and so angry over simple realities of life.
Waiting on a price drop makes you a cheap peace of shit PMSL no its called not getting ripped off by greedy ass developers. £40-£50 for just one game is a lot of money to start with, now if games were all priced at £20 this wouldn't be a big deal. Bottom line is yes a lot of gamers will just wait for a price drop and i hope it hurts them like hell because this isn't business this is all about squeezing as much money as they can out of us all. Game studios go out of business not because of the second hand market but because they make shit games.
correct, the ammount of times we've all paid 30-50 whatevers on a game and it's a pile of crap
denying people of used games and being able to get rid at some point is just so stupid, microsoft if they continue with this will lose this battle against sony before it's begun
in a rage about used game sales and not letting your poor ass friends play the same games? again it's a business, they need to make money on their products, you'd do the same thing. it just means if you're a cheap piece of shit maybe you have painfully wait a few months for a price drop. show me where tons of game studios are raking in cash and this is just a ploy to make even more money. big title studios can have their years be positive or negative based on the sales of one game. we have less and less big studios all the time. all that can flourish right now are behemoths and small indy camps most everything in between is struggling.
this shit is laughable that so many people are clueless and so angry over simple realities of life.
Waiting on a price drop makes you a cheap peace of shit PMSL no its called not getting ripped off by greedy ass developers. £40-£50 for just one game is a lot of money to start with, now if games were all priced at £20 this wouldn't be a big deal. Bottom line is yes a lot of gamers will just wait for a price drop and i hope it hurts them like hell because this isn't business this is all about squeezing as much money as they can out of us all. Game studios go out of business not because of the second hand market but because they make shit games.
$60 for a decent game that offers 10 hours of play time is actually an ok deal @ $6/hour for fun relative to todays typical entertainment costs. i don't want to pay that kind of money either but it's true. more than that is even cheaper and price cuts happen soon enough for those that didn't really want the game at release. like i said i just bought tomb raider for $30 new as i didn't play games for a few months due to being busy. if they eliminate used game sales something will change that's for sure. there could be people angered that can't resell their copy so they don't buy it and there will probably be people who counter that who just want it bad enough to buy it retail price. it will change the business for sure, i'll look forward to msft reaction to the change if enough people actually care to change themselves. they don't care about how many people play the game just the that if they do they pay for it.
@ dexter, tldr past first few lines.
trust me though i know business. i make a lot of money correctly analyzing businesses. your first little bit of potential customer bases and pissing them off thing is actually wrong.
"Imagine a pie, let's call it "Potential customers" that Microsoft is trying to sell, and every time they "piss off" a "potential customer-base" you eat a piece of pie and they have less of it to sell to people."
the cause and effect are true but hard core gamers are a smaller customer base with limited voice/money/power and not where msft wants to mainly focus for $$$$ reasons. the plainest example of that is call of duty, biggest seller ever and not a "hardcore gamer game". not to mention so far what msft has done will not piss off enough hard core gamers to make them stop paying. these things are like lights to moths for hard cores. not to mention there's an entire slew of hard cores who don't buy used simply to support the publishers. like i said 16 new games release year with 8 new franchises. that still sounds like a lot of good gaming to me.
this shit has been hilarious. so much hate, rage and wasted time over a video game console. like i said before just a bunch of unhappy people that want to complain on the internet. worst of it is no one even knows enough about it to conclude good/bad one way or the other yet. E3 will shed as much info as the release event did.
edit: take this as an example of the issue with used game sales and prices.
tomb raider sells 3.4 million copies week 1, good numbers right? yea no, still below sales targets, that doesn't even include digital sales either. the Square CEO hence forth has stepped down. you can elaborate on the problems of the business as there are many contributors but for the cost of these games this is another reason they need to combat used sales where pubs gets no kick back. another example is max payne 3, sold fairly well but flopped in recouping even just the cost let alone profits. i'd rather having no used games sales unless through pubs or people waiting for price drops than less games, that ecosystem works for steam.
also $60 is much less than $60 was when that became standardized as well as the costs for dev have skyrocketed. essentially games can not sustain the current path and we would all see decline in our hobby unless all you want to play is FTL and Hotline Miami.
Last edited by slacker4life at 2013-05-23 16:41:46
Apparently Microsoft has invested over a billion dollars into those new games.. perhaps its for the entirety of xbox ones lifetime?
Eurogamer: Will you continue aggressively pursuing exclusives?
"We're investing over a billion dollars in new games for Xbox One."
Phil Harrison: I think it depends on the market, it depends on the game, it depends on the opportunity. But in addition to our relationships we've announced, within studios we have more exclusive games in development than at any time in our history. There are 15 products in development for launch within the first year of Xbox One, eight of which will be brand-new IP. We're investing over a billion dollars in new games for Xbox One.
Meh just stick to PC for gaming, there really is no comparison IMO
if limiting oneself to a single platform one misses out on alot of great games unfortunately.
i'll be going for a PS4/PC this gen, probably end up getting a Wii-U once a new Zelda in full glorious HD gets released too.
#1532488 by ezzy525 (Not a spy, just a mod.) at 2013-05-29 19:30:44 (1 month ago) - [Report]
Seems to me like MS are going for the hipster Apple crowd, what with all the gimmicky TV crap and the invasive DRM.
I'll stick with the games console thanks. PS4 will do me nicely. If I get bored...I have a PC.
(Die-hard Staff) at 2013-05-22 23:32:07 (2 months ago) - [
(Power User) at 2013-05-23 00:44:17 (2 months ago) - [
(Power User) at 2013-05-23 09:30:45 (2 months ago) - [
(Power User) at 2013-05-26 21:27:23 (2 months ago) - [
