Pinochet was Chile though. Allende was the guy that got murdered by suicide with a golden Kalashnikov whilst CIA-led troops stormed the palace. One of my friends was one of the youngest guys in parliament in Chile when this happened. He managed to escape to Sweden and whilst they took his kids and put them in a special training camp. Some of them has now come to Sweden but after what happened they are struggling mentally and will for the rest of their lives.
But I understand that these nations can be considered evil. They have not given their oil to amercian/european corporations yet. Death to Iran, Venezuela and so on.
So much better with Africa!
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Chavez was a Fascist, not a socialist. The majority of citizens under his dictatorship have no understanding of geopolitical issues, other than what they are spoon fed by state controlled media.
Was he not elected and how can he be a dictator then?
The same way as hitler, who was also elected to power by democratic means but as soon as he got the power he acted like a dictator.
Robert Mugabe is also one example of a person elected to power and then using dictator like means to rule.
#1523549 by tidus (Power User) at 2013-03-06 15:09:29 (4 months ago) - [Report]
mbodnar wrote:
Chavez was a Fascist, not a socialist. The majority of citizens under his dictatorship have no understanding of geopolitical issues, other than what they are spoon fed by state controlled media.
And Obama is a Nobel prize winner for peace...oh wait he actually is, just like Mother Teresa...oh wait again, nobody of them didn't deserved that Nobel.
But in the end i don't give a damn about Chavez or American "democracy"..i just feel sorry fro the Venezuelan people.
Hitler got elected with the old system where only the bourgeoisie had a right to vote. They where so scared of democracy (and communism) that they voted him up in parliament. They did not realize that he would remove elections all together, they just wanted to stop the workers from voting.
@tidus
You can not call someone an idiot and then tell them that you have the solution. USA has problems, yes. But the Americans is NOT the problem. There is so many different opinions in the US of A and they all have a right to speak but it is very expensive to start a newspaper.
Its like saying all muslims are terrorists. Some Muslims will become terrorists to protect their opinion. Some Americans will be forced to protect them self and a war they do not support to begin with.
If you ask me someone need to lesser the power of the president but someone needs this power still. I believe in decentralization of power. USA needs to put more power in the governors hands and less to the president. Europe sucks as well.
I want to think that Obama won the peace prize because he based his whole election on stopping the war in Iraq and to shut down Guantanamo. He got the prize because he raised the opinion, not because he stopped some wars.
@mbodnar
Govermental media, Corporate media. All the same shit. I want internets.
Hitler got elected with the old system where only the bourgeoisie had a right to vote. They where so scared of democracy that they voted him up in parliament. They did not realize that he would remove elections all together, they just wanted to stop the workers from voting.
It does not matter, your question only had one variable "elected".
You asked how can somebody be a dictator if he is elected, I answered your question.
If you have more variables, then you have to represent them before your answer, not after it, I can't read your mind.
For example, "how can somebody be a dictator if he is elected ? Hitler can't be an example since the situation was too much different that it was with chavez."
#1523567 by bolg (Power User) at 2013-03-06 16:44:48 (4 months ago) - [Report]
tidus wrote:
The truth is that the people didn't live very well in Venezuela but anything is better then to be a slave of US and A.
I've been to Venezuela and it's a lovely country along the coast, but the cities aren't safe at all, and it's all gotten worse during Chavez' reign. According to international watchdogs the murder rate in Venezuela is at about 73 / 100 000 inhabitants and 200 / 100 0000 in Caracas which makes it the murder capital of the world, far exceeding cities in Mexico and Colombia.
[...]But on the other hand, he won four presidential elections by international observers deemed free and fair. The last election in the fall had a turnout of over 80 percent. 2007, he lost a referendum on a new constitution. A result, he also accepted.
Despite attempts to limit freedom of the press, it is an overwhelming portion of the Venezuelan media, both privately and anti-regime. Not even the opposition believe that there are more than eleven political prisoners in the country, and then include the people who were involved in the coup against Chávez 2002.
Despite the objections one may have against his regime, you can not describe it as a dictatorship. Venezuela before Chavez won his first presidential election in 1998 was a country where two basically identical parties had subscribed to the political power for 40 years. There was never a military dictatorship that many other countries in the region, but closed the country's poor majority, excluded from political influence.
Much of what Chavez has been criticized for - authoritarianism, political appointments, control over civil society, corruption, and use oil revenues to buy voter support - existed back then as well. A political and economic elite, supported by a relatively prosperous middle class could govern Venezuela while the country had an extremely high poverty. Over 70 percent of the population lived below the poverty line 1996th One quarter live in extreme poverty.
Over the past 14 years, extreme poverty has fallen to just under nine percent. Infant mortality and unemployment has halved. Illiteracy is almost extinct. Equality has increased. For many, much improved.
But at the same time, inflation has galloped, shortages have been a real problem, power cuts were constantly recurring, violent crime has been extremely high and the infrastructure has been neglected. Venezuela is not a communist dictatorship, but also not a socialist utopia. The old elite has been in undisturbed living and the highest tax rates stayed at a modest 34 percent.[...]
#1523729 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2013-03-07 15:54:27 (4 months ago) - [Report]
O'Really Sweden..
Peter Kurrild-Klitgaard wrote:
"Danish media were quick to pick up the predictable headlines when Venezuela's 'commander', Hugo Chavez, died. He was a "historic figure" and "loved by the people ', who are now "grieving"'. DR2 called him a "great communicator" and "great leader". Now this column is titled 'Blatantly Speaking', and we are so happy to be free from having to participate in all this 'money laundering'. So let us just recall all that Chavez was about. A politician who robbed its citizens, closed media belonging to or in favor of the political opposition, he even attempted a coup, he crushed Venezuela's economy by maintaining one of South America's lowest growth rates, he helped foreign terrorists and otherwise behaved in a way that makes Gaddafi , Goering and Berlusconi appear as the centrist Middle Way colorless role models they are.
Here was a statesman who seriously believed that Osama bin Laden was innocent, that al-Qaeda does not exist and that the moon landings did not take place. On the other hand, he believed that his cancer was perhaps part of a larger covert assassination program instigated by U.S. government. When Chávez was not ruining Venezuela and enjoying himself with dictators like Ahmadinejad and the Castro brothers, he led talks with the Revolutionary hero Simón Bolívar (1783-1830), which he called his "father" and saw himself as the reincarnation of. Likewise he addressed Jesus Christ in a speech addressed asking for his crown of thorns. One should not talk ill about the dead, so let's stick to the facts: Chavez was a unscrupulous madman."
"Danish media were quick to pick up the predictable headlines when Venezuela's 'commander', Hugo Chavez, died. He was a "historic figure" and "loved by the people ', who are now "grieving"'. DR2 called him a "great communicator" and "great leader". Now this column is titled 'Blatantly Speaking', and we are so happy to be free from having to participate in all this 'money laundering'. So let us just recall all that Chavez was about. A politician who robbed its citizens, closed media belonging to or in favor of the political opposition, he even attempted a coup, he crushed Venezuela's economy by maintaining one of South America's lowest growth rates, he helped foreign terrorists and otherwise behaved in a way that makes Gaddafi , Goering and Berlusconi appear as the centrist Middle Way colorless role models they are.
Here was a statesman who seriously believed that Osama bin Laden was innocent, that al-Qaeda does not exist and that the moon landings did not take place. On the other hand, he believed that his cancer was perhaps part of a larger covert assassination program instigated by U.S. government. When Chávez was not ruining Venezuela and enjoying himself with dictators like Ahmadinejad and the Castro brothers, he led talks with the Revolutionary hero Simón Bolívar (1783-1830), which he called his "father" and saw himself as the reincarnation of. Likewise he addressed Jesus Christ in a speech addressed asking for his crown of thorns. One should not talk ill about the dead, so let's stick to the facts: Chavez was a unscrupulous madman."
"equality" is a value in a social contract between people living in a society and you cannot really measure it.
Jyllandsposten does have some different opinions than most Swedish newspapers Their Drawing competition is one example that wasn't too popular in Aftonbladet
#1523738 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2013-03-07 16:24:35 (4 months ago) - [Report]
They do but I made a goof and this is from a different newspaper Berlingske Tidende: http://www.b.dk/groft-sagt/i-stedet-for-en-nekrolog (direct source; Google Translate could not access it in my browser)
@hOG
I have read people talking about that Chavez tried to silence they media but I have never seen any evidence of this. When the CIA and the opposition in collaboration with the army tried to reinstate the old US oil deal the people went out an protested and managed to save Chavez that was hours from getting kidnapped by CIA.
The only one responsible for censoring in Venezuela is the opposition media when the contra-revolutionaries shut down the only state owned bv channel. In fact the only time I have read about Chavez threatening to censor media was when they called upon making a coup on the day seven years after the first attempt and that was just a threat.
He has respected every election even when he lost when he wanted to change the constitution. The opposition has not. They have shot people demonstrating. The opposition has shut down the opposing media once. The people managed to stop it but it was not with the help of the local media. It was the international media that got the word out. It is the opposition that is not respecting the democracy.
I remember this situation very well. Swedish media did for many days not report about this. It was the left-winged politicians and the party owned newspaper that got the word out that the CIA tried to make another Pinochet.
This is how I see it. You are very welcome to prove me wrong. Venezuela has problems, yes. With crime, bureaucracy, corruption and inflation. This is the heritage Chavez leaves after him self -The things he did not manage to fix-. But the Venezuelan people is way much better off now than they where before. They stood up and stopped being exploited. When will the people of Iraq rise and take back the oil that was stolen from them ten years ago?
Shall we respect when (foreign) governments attack a country and steals the oil but not respect when the people through democratic means rise and steals it back? This is the problem. Like in Sweden where the right stole Absolute vodka from the people and gave it to the market. We can not take it back. But we can kick out the oil companies. Imagine when a foreign nation will bomb Norway and steal their oil. Will we help them, or just stand by as it goes on?
The main point is that he all the time respected the democratic constitution and he was re-elected time after time. If the left wins in a country in Europe or if someone more left than Obama wins an election in the US we have to accept the decision of the people and not take the army against the government.
It is bull-shit that we accept a guy like Silvio Berlusconi that owns much of the major media in Italy but we cannot accept Hugo Chavez only channel that has state in the name. I am convinced that the Venezuelan people are much more politically aware than the average European.
And I have also spoken with people that has left his country and oppose Chavez. Immigrants, not refugees.
You just can't accept that it was a good deal to sell V&S and Absolut with that(which in fact is a crap vodka)
Like I've said earlier. If you count that we're loosing the entire operating income bacause they are dicks when it comes to taxes(2.3b sek back in 2008), we would still earn more if we'd for example invested the same money in banks or even better, pay of our high interest debts.
Also, you might want to use google, wasn't to hard to find an article about Chavez silencing the media and spreading propaganda.
@Arnemes
I think that this decision should have been decided by the public in a general election. I am grateful to SD that they went in and stopped that madness in this election. The alliance is crappy businessmen that take money from small business-owners and gives it to major corporations like McDonald's with this youth tax cut and and removal of corporation tax.
Work against small shops/restaurants/industries and gives it to McDonalds. Are crappy American corporations save Sweden? Google paid less tax in Sweden than what it would cost for a industry to hire two workers. But this is pretty off topic so if you want to discuss this there is threads or pm =).
Edit:
Removed something that was wrong.
Edit2:
The internet is completely free. There is difference in Propaganda stations and internet discussions. I support completely free media but can understand why Chavez would want to push out the lobbyists. Especially after the coup attempt. I secretly dream about stopping the record labels to run radio stations since they force people to listen to their shit. I would not vote for it though.
(Mad Ultra Mod) at 2013-03-06 17:36:26 (4 months ago) - [
(Power User) at 2013-03-06 19:48:49 (4 months ago) - [
Their Drawing competition is one example that wasn't too popular in Aftonbladet 
They do 
