you don't mind people standing on the fence? It is eating your ass up fool
Nah, as long as they don't support religion, it's ok with me (it means that religion in general has less and less meaning), ofcourse I would like them to be clearly on my side, but my goal is to get rid of organized religions and Im fine if this is the path to my goal,better reach the goal slowly but steadily than trying to change things in a hurry. The slow and steady approach might produce a result which lasts and becomes everyday reality.
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But the church doesn't just loose members, people sign up again
Yeah, as a state church a major part of new borns join the club due the fact that parents religion inherits automatically to the child.
Luckily this seems to be less than those who leave, so the flow is positive.
Also many young parents today don't babtize their child on church anymore and even they belong to the church their kid does not, which is great.
Also, most of the people who were born after WWII belong to church and they are the largest group of people here in finland. After 20 years when they are all growing cane, the amount of people belonging to the church is going to be much smaller.
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That would never be the case in my country and shows the strong influence of the Lutheran church in your country. Impressive.
Yeah and I can understand that, our church has been one of the most liberal christian institutions in europe (and thats the reason why all the biblethumbers and other more conservative people have left it to form their own institutions).
After the 60's the church has been very open minded in many issues (divorce,gays,women and so on) and people more likely identify themselves part of that than christianity as whole (which is stained by catholic church and the extremists in USA and other countries).
Religion here in finland has been seen very much as a personal thing and the communication between non believers and representives of our official church has been friendly (unlike what we can see in usa for example).
If the non believers point out faults in church related stuff (maverics who use religion to influence kids or have practised suspicous stuff like trying to wake up dead people on the mortuary), the church has addressed the issues rather than trying to get a fight.
#1503478 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2012-10-24 19:00:32 (9 months ago) - [Report]
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Yeah and I can understand that, our church has been one of the most liberal christian institutions in europe (and thats the reason why all the biblethumbers and other more conservative people have left it to form their own institutions).
After the 60's the church has been very open minded in many issues (divorce,gays,women and so on) and people more likely identify themselves part of that than christianity as whole (which is stained by catholic church and the extremists in USA and other countries).
Religion here in finland has been seen very much as a personal thing and the communication between non believers and representives of our official church has been friendly (unlike what we can see in usa for example).
If the non believers point out faults in church related stuff (maverics who use religion to influence kids or have practised suspicous stuff like trying to wake up dead people on the mortuary), the church has addressed the issues rather than trying to get a fight.
The way you describe it, it seems kind of strange of you to want to get rid of something like that.. the church went in the right direction in your opinion didn't it? And looking at the religious alternatives like the orthodox church, the evangelical groups, the Muslim groups etc., which are the ones who are growing according to the book you linked to, are they more tolerable and the Lutheran church the least tolerable of them? They are growing, not dropping - the Lutheran church's drop benefits these other groups and the atheist/agnostic group doesn't seem to take up a large share.
You should accept that religion or spirituality is a normal human occupation and that it is not going to disappear magically from Finland. Only your old pal Marx can help you out there
The way you describe it, it seems kind of strange of you to want to get rid of something like that..
Well, it is still an organization which promotes something irrational, and rational is always better than irrational in my mind.
Also, even a liberal view of religion is a potential platform for extremism. It starts with liberal views and then can grow to more extreme views.
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You should accept that religion or spirituality is a normal human occupation and that it is not going to disappear magically from Finland.
Not magically but with reasoning.
Lot's of things which have been part of normal human occupations (like slavery,women being second to men etc.) have been abandonded and altered via reasoning, I don't see why religion couldn't follow aswell.
One problem with religion is that it discourages "choice" by doing something that should never be done teaching faith.
Believe it or not human beings are relatively intelligent creatures and religious indoctrination ingrains a given faith and leaves no room for individual choice. In my eyes a faith that is taught and not learned through a persons own spiritual desire to understand their own existence is just using the idea of faith as a cop-out to justify their own baseless ideals.
Surly choosing to devote your life to a particular religion, if your that way inclined, should be treated as one of the most important choices you will ever make. So would it no be the act of a truly enlightened individual to understand all religious avenues open to them before deciding which they will devote themselves to? It would make sense but how many people who claim to be of a certain religion have done this, I think very few...
Most people (not all) who say they are (i.e) Catholic do so because a family member is catholic or they went to a catholic school so on and so forth not because they have studied the ideals and truly feel enlightened by that specific religious doctrine...
Thought I would unlock this is due to a letter I received in the mail today. This is the letter verbatim, withholding specifics.
Dear xxxx Catholic High alumni.
It is my painfull responsibility to inform you that it has recently come to the attention of the diocese of Pittsburgh and xxx Catholic High School that an accusation of abuse has been made against Franciscan brother xxxxx, OFM who taught at xxx Catholic from 1980 to 1991.
The allegation is that in the 1970's Brother xxxxx abused two minors in Boston. He was accused the 1993 after he left xxx Catholic High School and was working again in the Boston area. He was removed from ministry in 1993.
If you or anyone you know has been harmed by Brother xxxxx, or anyone representative of the Catholic church, you are urged to call the Diocesan Abuse Hotline at x-xxx-xxx-xxxx or the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania abuse hotline at x-xxx-xxx-xxxx.
Thank you and god bless you
Xxxx. Xxxxx
President
Xxxxx Catholic High School
This creep was in our locker room, bathrooms, at our lunch table. Almost threw up when i read it, saw the letterhead and figured it was a reunion or asking for donations. Apparently not.
(Mad Ultra Mod) at 2013-03-05 20:04:49 (4 months ago) - [
