Serious Chat > Multiculturalism has failed in Europe

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#1375071 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-02-05 00:13:51 (2 years ago) - [Report]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop … -says.html

Quote:

Muslims must embrace our British values, David Cameron says
British Muslims must subscribe to mainstream values of freedom and equality, David Cameron will say as he declares that the doctrine of multiculturalism has “failed” and will be abandoned.

Entering the debate on national identity and religious tolerance, the Prime Minister will declare an end to “passive tolerance” of divided communities, and say that members of all faiths must integrate into wider society and accept core values.

To be British is to believe in freedom of speech and religion, democracy and equal rights regardless of race, sex or sexuality, he will say. Proclaiming a doctrine of “muscular liberalism”, he will say that everyone, from ministers to ordinary voters, should actively confront those who hold extremist views.

...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

Quote:

David Cameron will declare today that multiculturalism has failed in Britain as he vows to confront Islamist extremists living here who reject Western values. The Prime Minister will say that years of “hands-off tolerance” have encouraged different cultures to live....

Thats huge, really huge, Im stunned that british who are the most bent over and pc regarding to muslims are giving statements like that, openly admitting that multiculturalism just don't work if there are separate rules for some minorities, just what I have said for so long in our discussions.
Finally europe shows some balls and is starting to stand for the freedoms it has aquired in it's societies based on equality,justice and secularism.
You come here,you must accept our groundstone principles which carry our culture.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andr … ulturalism

UK wrote:

David Cameron will say as he declares that the doctrine of multiculturalism has failed and will be abandoned.

Germany wrote:

Germany’s attempt to create a multicultural society has utterly failed, Chancellor Angela Merkel said

Now when 2 main EU and European countries have officially declared that their attempts to create a society based on multiculturalism have failed this has to affect the future EU politics concerning immigration and things related to it.

#1375101 by Urachez

(Power User) at 2011-02-05 02:45:57 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Now that is a fucking truthful statement. Finally some progress.
Good for you, britons.

I guess Sweden won't hear about this through any popular media channels, though.

#1375102 by slacker4life (Power User) at 2011-02-05 02:50:35 (2 years ago) - [Report]

wow, i'm kinda shocked... but in a good way.

#1375103 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2011-02-05 02:55:19 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Hope he is ready for the onslaught of the British press (especially the BBC) who are the stalwart defenders of the PC mindset that has been destroying that country. Saying multiculturalism has failed to them is like telling a Muslim there is no Allah, its tantamount to a declaration of war.

VBGEdit: I bet you meant "tantamount" and not "tad amount" right?

Don't worry we can just say Timex hacked your account

I dont know what you mean, that's what I wrote :shifty:

Last edited by qbert95 at 2011-02-05 14:39:18

#1375107 by Asd0r (Power User) at 2011-02-05 03:51:48 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Well, its about damn time someone realized it, even if its the pirates. Now, they will have to learn to integrate or leave. As it should had been since the very beginning.

#1375117 by dodeliatcha (User) at 2011-02-05 04:35:05 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Hey guys

I am a muslim living in sweden

I agree with cameron

multiculturalism has failed

I've lived in Sweden all my life and I'm a swedish citizen and nothing else, I consider this my country and I consider myself a part of the swedish people

And I will defend this country and the swedish people without hesitating. The Swedish Language is my "prime" language. I consider this my "homeland"

and all my swedish friends consider me swedish

As I've served in the swedish armed forces

or atleast done lumpen "Recruit training" for one year

. AND from my point of view. it really has failed ( we are lucky in sweden, we got high living standards and our economy is the soundest one in europe) but in other places in europe..yepp definately

especially britain and france

Anyways Multiculturalism does not work

Thats how it is..no point in denying it.

We should emphasize intergration. Ban dual citizenships ( I have been against this for a long time) You cant be loyal to two countries can you?? dual citizenship to me is bullshit. its not logical

BUT since all swedish citizens are considered swedes under Swedish AND international laws.. we cant force them to live a certain way of life..

INSTEAD we should take in far fewer immigrants and give out far fewer citizenships..we have many foregners coming here and becoming swedish citizens without even knowing swedish

FFS thats the most effective solution..

anyways its outrageous to see people cant even speak swedish...and it angers us here who work hard and see our taxes used like that. And no Disrespect to somalis but we really need to fix that problem, they are becoming larger and larger and most of them cant read or write..and if you have noticed, "burkas" are often worn by somali women, or most often by them atleast more so than others...they really refuse to intergrate..

I would have supported the swedish democrats (sverige demokraterna) had they not been so ANTI-EU in their foregn policy..they want to withdraw from the EU..which is sick because europe must stand united with all these rising powers etc

EDIT :::::

Often immigrants become angry when people speak about how multi culturalism has failed, because they feel its an attack against them..but its not

we have alot of immigrants in sweden..many of them are unemployed and most of them have social problems.we are a rich nation, we should spend money on ourselves and those that are already here instead of taking in more..this is to muslims AND non muslims..

Another solution is internet, thorugh internet we europeans share the same music / views / joes / movies / fashion..internet has done alot of intergrate the younger generations ( alot of us are starting to think the same way) dont you agree???

Last edited by dodeliatcha at 2011-02-05 04:50:01

#1375139 by Picard1701E Donor

(Power User) at 2011-02-05 09:15:46 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

Germany wrote:

Germany’s attempt to create a multicultural society has utterly failed, Chancellor Angela Merkel said

When did she say that? Haven't heard anything about it so far. I totally agree, but if a german politician says something like this, he or she usually gets branded "Nazi" immediately, so I'm a bit surprised to say the least.

#1375141 by THEBiZ (User) at 2011-02-05 09:20:48 (2 years ago) - [Report]

If we needed them, we wouldn't care if they wore the burkha and prayed to allah on our backyard.
Since we're living in a time of scarcity and unemployment numbers are peaking, it's now much easier for polititians to find a need for these actions and, even more important, to justify them to the population.

It's not about the social integration... It's about finding an excuse to get someone out because it's overcrowded. Why weren't ppl talking about this when things were kind of ok, regarding the economy?

Telling a devote muslim woman to remove the burkha in public is like telling a devote christian woman to wear nothing but a thong when she goes to work.
They only pick on muslims because it's easy to make them disappear if suddenly they can't practice the various aspects of their religion any more. That's it!

This is nazism in disguise, if you ask me... It's nothing but trying to make space and lighten the load. It's got nothing to do with cultural values.

Gypsies are even more socially distant than Muslim. In my country they are absolutely good for nothing. They live of the state, they run from work like the devil runs from the cross, but in the end of the month they are first in line to receive the unemployment subsidy, they sell counterfeited shit, they sell dope, they have completely closed communities, they disregard women rights, they don't even go to school, they are loud as fuck, they just can't live socially (if there's a gipsy group in a crowd, they WILL get noticed), they pay 0 (zero, nada, nothing, zilch) in taxes, yet they crowd hospitals like it belongs to them and demand 5 star service from everyone, they are given free housing because they are "poor" (note the "" because they drive in mercedes... It's more like because it's a way for them to shut the fuck up and drop criminality on the cities by making them live far), etc, etc, etc... I could literally go for hours. Does anyone care about gipsies? No, because they are not really a nuisance! I mean, they don't even wear a burkha!

Last edited by THEBiZ at 2011-02-05 09:28:54

#1375142 by alupigus (Lumberjack) at 2011-02-05 09:35:11 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Urachez wrote:

Now that is a fucking truthful statement. Finally some progress.
Good for you, britons.

Agree!It was the time for the British lion to wake up.

#1375145 by Snuffsis (Power User) at 2011-02-05 10:02:49 (2 years ago) - [Report]

THEBiZ wrote:

you do know that "multiculturalism" regards Multiple cultures, even gypsies?
It's not just about the muslims, although it may seem like it because they are most prevalent in the media today.
But i do agree, it's mostly gypsies fucking things up, they're seriously fucked up. One time a woman let her kid eat from the stores candy buckets and when she got told she just went "meh, not my problem"... that is fucking theft! <.<

And as far as i could see, i don't see him saying anything about kicking people out, but more of changing their immigration and integration politics to make immigrants adapt to the country they move to.

Last edited by Snuffsis at 2011-02-05 10:04:28

#1375146 by CaLlMeDaD (Power User) at 2011-02-05 10:03:12 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Could it be. A Prime Minister with a backbone.

Glad its finally been acknowledge, 10yrs too late mind and will take a hell of a lot to sort it out what with 13 years of Labour open door policy.

#1375152 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-02-05 10:31:02 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Quote:

This is nazism in disguise, if you ask me... It's nothing but trying to make space and lighten the load. It's got nothing to do with cultural values.

Didn't take too long before the first nazi card was flipped in the air.
How on earth addressing an existing problem is nazism ?
And for sure there is an existing problem among the muslim immigrants in the europe, majority of them have not intergrated at all and don't neither respect the values and don't want to integrate.

We have a muslim who lives in sweden (who surely have some inside seeing in the subject) saying that this is true, those who have intergrated aknowlidge the problem and are not afraid to say it, cause it would be pretty difficult to label them nazis, wouldn't it.
Hats up for those who are immigrants and are not afraid to address the issue aswell, those are the peple who we need, they are listened among the immigrants and as we know, they are also riskng their won health doing so.

#1375156 by Germs Donor

(Paulo DiCanio's Disciple) at 2011-02-05 10:52:43 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Hope Cameron is ready for the backlash.If he thought we were struggling to fight fundamentalism and terror now just wait until we try to force immigrants to adopt our culture and drop their own.

It's always seemed to me that you should try to assimilate into the country you have chosen to make your home but that's not what many do....there's parts of the UK that seem more like the Indian sub-continent (and I don't mean because of the faces,I mean because of the language,the shops and clothing etc).

#1375159 by THEBiZ (User) at 2011-02-05 11:01:30 (2 years ago) - [Report]

All i'm saying is, this is nothing but an easy way of getting people out of the overcrowded system (and it's actually fine by me).

Lets be serious... Why only the muslims? Because it's actually easy to get them out! Just hit their religious rights and off they go. Instant oxygen bubble... You can't do that with gypsies or africans or whatever unless you're blatantly racist.
That's why i'm saying this is nazism in disguise. The idea is the same, it's only covered up in a whole lot of layers that are used as excuses (muslims are the devil, the burkha, woman rights, religious fanatism, terrorism, the boogie man) and so the ppl not only swallows it but actually finds it a great idea!

I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be done.
If they asked me, i'd say we close our borders, get everyone that doesn't contribute to the society, stick'em in a boat and drop them in the high seas... Regardless of colour race or religion.
My argument is only justified by the lack of honesty in the politics. They instead play you around! They are afraid of saying gtfo to these communities because they don't want to sound racist, so they flourish their intents with something else to make it acceptable. I mean even you were expecting someone would flip the nazi card, probably because you saw some of it's characteristics on this proposal... At least admit that the little guy on the back of your head was going "hey this could pass as being a bit on the nazi side..."!

Bottom line, everyone is thinking this way, the politics are obviously aware of it but the thing is, it's really not acceptable to talk about it straight in the face. Fortunately we haven't got to that point yet! So they just disguise it with secondary stuff in order for ppl to be able to clap and nod without feeling like shit... The intention is exactly the same and so are the end results.

Last edited by THEBiZ at 2011-02-05 11:07:53

#1375161 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-02-05 11:10:24 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Could it be that they address especially the muslims because they are the ones who are most non integrated and cause the most of the problems ? Could it be so ?

Quote:

My argument is only justified by the lack of honesty in the politics.

Lact of honesty when finally somebody is honsetly admitting that there is a problem (which the people on the streets have known for years now).

Quote:

Lets be serious... Why only the muslims? Because it's actually easy to get them out! Just hit their religious rights and off they go.

Nobody is hitting anybodys rigths, they are talking about equality and similar rights (as it should be) and not special treatment which have been going on.
Same rights for everybody, no matter what your religion is, thats not hitting your religious rights.
And naturally this is for every group, not just muslims.

#1375162 by ZuGuli Donor

(. )( .) at 2011-02-05 11:16:39 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

We have a muslim who lives in sweden (who surely have some inside seeing in the subject) saying that this is true, those who have intergrated aknowlidge the problem and are not afraid to say it, cause it would be pretty difficult to label them nazis, wouldn't it.
Hats up for those who are immigrants and are not afraid to address the issue aswell, those are the peple who we need, they are listened among the immigrants and as we know, they are also riskng their won health doing so.

Count me in aswell then, even tho I'm not muslim but still, loads of immigrants are bothered by this just as much as the Swedes..

#1375166 by THEBiZ (User) at 2011-02-05 11:20:15 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

Could it be that they address especially the muslims because they are the ones who are most non integrated and cause the most of the problems ? Could it be so ?

I've mentioned the gypsies. They are an example of an even more non integrated ppl... I mean, you can't even compare! So why not them? Easy, because that's not the point...

sniperfin wrote:

Quote:

My argument is only justified by the lack of honesty in the politics.

Lact of honesty when finally somebody is honsetly admitting that there is a problem (which the people on the streets have known for years now).

Lack of honesty in like, not saying what really lies behind their intentions.

sniperfin wrote:

Quote:

Lets be serious... Why only the muslims? Because it's actually easy to get them out! Just hit their religious rights and off they go.

Like i said, when you say someone, for instance, can't wear a burkha in a public school, that for me is a violation of your rights. Having equal rights for everyone isn't the same as saying that everyone should behave the same, wear the same, etc...
I mean it's even in the topic's title! They are saying multiculturalism has failed! Different cultures on our society is now a problem in the views of the politics... How can that sound like a bad thing?

Last edited by THEBiZ at 2011-02-05 11:22:10

#1375182 by plasmaLCD (Power User) at 2011-02-05 12:16:17 (2 years ago) - [Report]

This was a pleasant surprise! Now that they have accepted the fact, it time for them to show some balls and do something about it. Implement stricter laws and start throwing their sorry asses back.

#1375185 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-02-05 12:23:45 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Quote:

Like i said, when you say someone, for instance, can't wear a burkha in a public school, that for me is a violation of your rights.

No it's not, violation of your rights would be not to be able to wear burkha in your own time, and thats why I for example am against such districtions.
And burkha has nothing to do with religion in the first place (even if it would, it wouldn't matter).
It would be perfectly ok for a school to ban for example swastika t-shirt from it's pupils, but to ban swastika t-shirt use in your freetime is a violation of your freedoms in my eyes.
For example in school there are many regulations due various reasons, you can't smoke in the classroom, but in your own home you can,you can't use your mobile phone, examples are numerous.

Quote:

I mean it's even in the topic's title! They are saying multiculturalism has failed! Different cultures on our society is now a problem in the views of the politics... How can that sound like a bad thing?

It has failed because there is too much positive discrimination (minority cultures are give way too much exceptions which have caused them to isolate more from the society rather than integrating).
And minority cultures have exploited this as much as they can using the islamophobia & racist cards when ever they are denied of something which is against the principles of western justice society.
Usually this have worked and the leaders have bent over, now the cup has filled and they have faced the reality, this is just not working.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2011-02-05 12:30:23

#1375187 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2011-02-05 12:26:53 (2 years ago) - [Report]

In a society which has been multicultural for decades how can Cameron talk about "them" embracing our British values? Sounds like a doctrine that is doomed to fail as well.

#1375189 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-02-05 12:32:58 (2 years ago) - [Report]

hOG wrote:

In a society which has been multicultural for decades how can Cameron talk about "them" embracing our British values? Sounds like a doctrine that is doomed to fail as well.

Perhaps he is talking about those immigrants who are living in England but are still outside the society, living in their own cultural communities where own values are embrased followed instead of britis ones ?

A comment from bbc web site which in my opinion has a very good point:

Quote:

The moderate Muslim still feels that he has more in common with the extremist Muslim than he does with the moderate Atheist, Christian, Hindu or Jew.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2011-02-05 12:45:30

#1375199 by TheBigDon (Power User) at 2011-02-05 13:14:18 (2 years ago) - [Report]

I can't help but think Cameron is coming out with this just to try and win some brownie points with the public, and save his arse after all of the cutbacks etc. Afterall, look at all the promises they made to get into power, and how many have they already gone back on? Nothing ever changes.

Germs wrote:

Couldn't agree with you more, I've recently moved back home from Coventry. I've never felt like more of a minority before living there. My first job in a call centre, I was one of only 7 white people out of 250. And the majority whilst being english spoke their parents native languages 98% of the time which made it very uncomfortable and nigh impossible to join in conversation (Although I did learn a little polish and punjabi). Also, community wise I felt shunned, the other nationalities seemed to form their own tight knit communities in the area I lived. People wouldn't say hello nor engage in conversation. Whether they knew how to or not was a different matter. I've been saying this country is screwed multiculturally for years since we opened the doors to anyone and everyone.

The problem I see now is too little, too late. They are already here, and I expect this country only has an idea of where 5% of the people they've let in are, if that! It'll be interesting as to how they address this, or whether it's just a fleeting comment, and nothing ever gets done. Time will tell. As for the extremists, they already have so much hate for this country, its people and its values; coming out with that now is only going to piss them off more and provoke them to do something else.

Last edited by TheBigDon at 2011-02-05 13:18:25

#1375201 by ghostbone Donor

(Power User) at 2011-02-05 13:38:06 (2 years ago) - [Report]

I've been saying this for ages, if you want to come to Briton do as Britons do. Good stuff!

#1375203 by unknown[397565] at 2011-02-05 14:11:17 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Whoo David Cameron speaks and I totally care ...NOT.

Certainly you can't ask people to adapt to immigrants so much, immigrants are supposed to adapt as well...that's absurd and mostly a UK-only thing.

#1375248 by croivzeba (Power User) at 2011-02-05 17:42:27 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Umm wait? This is something new? Wasn't it known that European countries were like that? This really doesn't just apply to muslims.. Just try and go get a visa made if you are a foreigner. They treat you like complete shit! I mean complete utter shit!

I applied for an Austrian visa in December.. Left austria because I needed to otherwise I would be over staying without a visa.. The annoying indian telemarketers that used to call in Canada which didn't speak english and were REALLY pushy to sell were more polite than the people working at the application office.. Now this isn't just Austria, lived in germany when i was small and my parents had the same trouble there..

Maybe Im just an unlucky case.. They said my visa was gonna be done in 2 weeks, 3 weeks Maximum and if there are problems they'd send me a letter in the mail.. Brother lives at the address so he would get the mail.. It's my 7th week in Croatia waiting for it and still nothing.. The person responsible answered her phone once in 5-6 days of calling every couple of hours when trying to get in touch and when she answered she said you will be informed through the mail.. really couldn't be more of help.. It happens but after waiting double the period and no notification.. getting ridiculous..

I actually miss Canada's multiculturalism.. The things they used to call racism there are like second nature here lol..

Last edited by croivzeba at 2011-02-05 17:44:34

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