Serious Chat > Palestine

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#664865 by unknown[117853] at 2006-08-11 14:11:34 (6 years ago) - [Report]

negge wrote:

As far as I know the Jews came to Israel (the promised land) with Moses back in the days, so if you say the land is those who lived there first, I guess it ain't the Jews.

Christians have conquered it once or twice, but it ain't theirs either.

Overall I say no land belongs to anyone, and I don't understand why jews and muslims can't live side by side in Israel. Why does it have to be so hard?

Because one side chose to build a wall around it..

#664871 by VeryBadGuy Donor

(Mad Ultra Mod) at 2006-08-11 14:27:29 (6 years ago) - [Report]

sambalbij wrote:

negge wrote:

Because one side chose to build a wall around it..

because the other side was blowing themselves up and innocent people along with them? :hmmm:

#664947 by unknown[54181] at 2006-08-11 16:55:59 (6 years ago) - [Report]

sharshafil wrote:

upon what r u basing those things?

I'm jewish, and i have a absoloutly nothing agains christians or muslims (who are not radical) and im not hiding any secret hatred or whatever u r saying i do.
i don't know what is ur religion, and how much u know about judaism, but the jewish bible is the christian's old testament... and there are no such things written as u said.
by the way, chirstians couldnt be mentioned in it cause they simply didnt exist at the time...
last thing-arabs are known to be Ismael's descendants, and the jews-descendants of Itzhak and both of them were sons to the same father.

Well, as you deny the true belief of your religion (Judaism), I decided to quote only examples of what I promised.
Either you don't know anything about your religion ( that your government support ), or you pretend to hide the truth.. Both reasons don't make sense.
Ever heared about "Talmod" ? Well it is the "holiest book" in the judaism's faith. It is said Jewish Scribes received the Talmud partly as a collection of traditions given to them from Moses in oral form. (I believe all of this have been written by jews themselves, and have never been recieved from God). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

Go pick a copy of the "Talmod" from any jew if you don't have one and compare the quotes with the text in Talmod.
Now let's read what exactly tells us this "Holiest jewish Book" :

Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud Where a Jew Should Do Evil:

Quote:

Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis:

Quote:

Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God:

Quote:

Sanhedrin 58b: If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews:

Quote:

Sanhedrin 57a : A Jew need not pay a gentile the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status:

Quote:

Baba Kamma 37b : If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full.

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews:

Quote:

Baba Mezia 24a : If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ( "heathen" ) it does not have to be returned.

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews:

Quote:

Sanhedrin 57a : When a Jew murders a gentile, there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Quote:

Baba Kamma 37b : The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews:

Quote:

Baba Kamma 113a : Jews may use lies ( "subterfuges" ) to circumvent a Gentile.

^^ Maybe therefore I don't accept anything from a jewish media :hmmm:

?

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human + Sick and Insane Teachings:

Quote:

Yebamoth 98a : All gentile children are animals.

Quote:

Abodah Zarah 36b : Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Quote:

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b : Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Quote:

Yebamoth 63a : Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

Quote:

Yebamoth 59b : A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

Quote:

Hagigah 27a : States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

Quote:

Baba Mezia 59b : A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

Quote:

Gittin 70a : On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic.

Quote:

Menahoth 43b-44a : A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: "Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave."

Quote:

Gittin 69a : To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey and eat it.

Quote:

Shabbath 41a : The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.

Quote:

Yebamoth 63a : States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Quote:

Sanhedrin 55b : A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Attacks Christians and their Books:

Quote:

Rosh Hashanah 17a : Christians ( "minim" ) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.

Quote:

Sanhedrin 90a : Those who read the New Testament will have no portion in the world to come.

Quote:

Shabbath 116a (p. 569) : Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).

What Jewish Scholars Are Saying:

Quote:

Rabbi Meir Kahane , told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane" ).

Quote:

University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against goyim," a Hebrew term for non-Jews. (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

Quote:

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).

Quote:

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

This were only examples, and there are much more hatred toward Christians and even Muslims (although they claim that Talmod is holy book brought down on Moses in Sinaa', but they added to it hatred and violence toward muslims and prophet Muhammed -pbuh-).

Now how can anyone (not only muslims and arabs ) live side by side with such sort of "Humans" ? There will never be a peace, anywhere they live they bring with them conflict and problems, the history is full with examples.
I have some videos show how the Jewish Settlers (not just soldiers) attack innocent civilian palestinians with rocks and break their houses or do nasty things toward them in the Occupied Palestine (in cities where only jews live with few arabs) and if you see them, you'll never deny what I quoted from their "Holy Talmod" and you'll agree that they really study this book and practise it in their life. They are faaaaaaar away from "Human Rights" and "Modern Life", I'll never compare them with Europe like some of people try to say.

#664954 by unknown[117853] at 2006-08-11 17:11:43 (6 years ago) - [Report]

VeryBadGUy wrote:

because the other side was blowing themselves up and innocent people along with them? :hmmm:

Nope, just a small group.

#664968 by unknown[132664] at 2006-08-11 17:30:41 (6 years ago) - [Report]

A small group supported by almost all Palestinians.

Thomas wrote:

I'm not a religious person but I learned this books and there is no chance it will be written to steal is right since it's against the "great book". I'd like to see your sources.
Also You show nothing but ignorance when saying Talmud is the most important book. It might be third after the bible and the "Mishna".

#664970 by unknown[54181] at 2006-08-11 17:38:22 (6 years ago) - [Report]

rehovot wrote:

I'd like to see your sources.
Also You show nothing but ignorance when saying Talmud is the most important book. It might be third after the bible and the "Mishna".

LOL you want to see my sources ? can't you read ? The source is the Talmod, all the quotes that I wrote are from Talmod, Word by Word , except the quotes under the title "What Jewish Scholars Are Saying" are reports and all have their sources under them. Accept your books like this or deny them wich led you to leave your religion.

About that it is the Holiest Book of jews, I gave you the proof from the Talmod itself, but you don't read everything or you don' understand what has been written :

Quote:

Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

The scribes are refered to the "Talmod" , they - the jews - describe this book as the "Scribes" of Moses.

#664973 by unknown[10614] at 2006-08-11 17:45:36 (6 years ago) - [Report]

Thomas1234, Koran can beat Talmud easily in that regard. And no, I'm not gonna post those again here, don't wanna get into a flame war, but you can find them on the web too.

#664976 by unknown[54181] at 2006-08-11 17:48:29 (6 years ago) - [Report]

modan wrote:

Thomas1234, Koran can beat Talmud easily in that regard. And no, I'm not gonna post those again here, don't wanna get into a flame war, but you can find them on the web too.

Just in your imagination

No verse in the whole quran can be close to 0.1% of what I quoted from Talmod... I am ready to quote the verses from quran, and I'll be happy if you quote one close to what I quoted from Talmod.

#664981 by unknown[132664] at 2006-08-11 18:02:00 (6 years ago) - [Report]

I'll prove why this all quotes are one big BS.
The real meaning.

Someone posted to the same BS on other forum wrote:

things of which Jews are executed for, gentiles (those who took on themselves the seven commands of the sons of Noah) are only warned.

Thomas brought wrote:

Sanhedrin 57a : When a Jew murders a gentile, there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Are you kidding?

My version of this sentence:
"Things which the courts of Israel give death penalty about other sons of Noah(non Jews) are only being warn about."
This should give you the quality of the translation which is actually changing the meaning.

thomas wrote:

No verse in the whole quran can be close to 0.1% of what I quoted from Talmod

Probably because it's not written in the Talmud. What you brought is very bad translation and taking things out of context by quoting 5-8 words. I can do the same thing about the book Snow White and in the quran I won't have to use such ugly techniques I'll simply translate the real meaning.
Also you keep saying it's the most important book to Jews and it was written by Moses while the first 5 books of the bible were written by GOD himself. and there is the Mishna which was brought by moses and was written many years after he got it from god. The Talmud is the "expansion pack" of the Mishna and it's not even written in Hebrew(Aramaic). This book was written in order to take care of the "bureaucratic" side of the religion by explaining "what should we do in case..."

Also if you'll look on the net you'll find the same version of the "translation" which means the source is one. In Hebrew you can find the full text of the whole Talmud.

Thomas next time check your sources instead of looking stupid like that

#664992 by unknown[54181] at 2006-08-11 18:22:58 (6 years ago) - [Report]

No I am not kidding... Remember, I don't accept anythin a jew tells me sorry, the reason is hidden inside the "Talmod" when it says :

Quote:

Baba Kamma 113a : Jews may use lies ( "subterfuges" ) to circumvent a Gentile.

Which means the jews are allowed to lie, therefore - excuse me- I won't take it from you.

And to know the fact, I don't have only an english Talmod, but also a german and an arabic. How come all this 3 languages have the same meanings of this quotes.

And go on, explain all of the quotes that I wrote which you call "out of context", and if you want more I will write more... They were only examples.

Again ( I got bored really ) you priests say it is - The Talmod - is the "Holiest" Book for jews, not me, and I gave you a verse from the Talmod tself which has been written by Jews and not Moses as your priests claim.

TomEDIT: Well I have read the VBG's warning, and I decided to stop here if he or any mod really sees that it is offtopic. I was responsing only on their posts because their early posts contained offtopic too, nothing personal at all.

#665003 by unknown[132664] at 2006-08-11 18:42:05 (6 years ago) - [Report]

First I'm not a religious person. your insults are primitive and belong to the mid eves and implicates on your IQ level. Not only that it's also funny since you base your racism on such stupid sources.

The last thing I quoted is enough for what I wanted to show(the source of the translation).
and you can bring every person who speak Hebrew to check my translation. And I wanna ask what do you conclude about your sources from the translation I fixed?

If you want You can bring the quotes you want me to translate and I'll do it.

#665005 by VeryBadGuy Donor

(Mad Ultra Mod) at 2006-08-11 18:43:46 (6 years ago) - [Report]

This is going way way off topic and getting personal...stop it right here or I will stop it for all of you

#665017 by unknown[73661] at 2006-08-11 18:57:21 (6 years ago) - [Report]

sambalbij wrote:

VeryBadGUy wrote:

because the other side was blowing themselves up and innocent people along with them? :hmmm:

Nope, just a small group.

small group??

vbg, i belive a couple of days ago u brought a link to a table that contains numbers of suicide bombers and israeli deaths...

will u please give us the link again?

those are not small groups...

those are people who's families get paid by their government to do that... and for that they gain the title of a hero.

#665022 by unknown[10614] at 2006-08-11 19:04:23 (6 years ago) - [Report]

Thomas1234 wrote:

modan wrote:

Thomas1234, Koran can beat Talmud easily in that regard. And no, I'm not gonna post those again here, don't wanna get into a flame war, but you can find them on the web too.

Just in your imagination

No verse in the whole quran can be close to 0.1% of what I quoted from Talmod... I am ready to quote the verses from quran, and I'll be happy if you quote one close to what I quoted from Talmod.

Ah, knew this was coming. Yes, everyone else is very imaginative and ignorant. I can quote more than you did from Koran commanding worse things, but what's the use, there are few other stupid excuses like out of context (although so far no one could show me how), bad translation (wrong), etc. etc.

But as VBG said, it's going off topic, and that's why I said I didn't wanna get into another cyber war and I won't. But please don't talk bs just because you think so.

@mods: I'm getting out of this thread, just my last post in this.

#665039 by unknown[54181] at 2006-08-11 19:31:01 (6 years ago) - [Report]

@modan :
I posted proofs, and you could explain all of them, instead of throwing bla bla bla on other books claiming they contain worse than that or claiming they are out of context. But as I said I won't continue on this thread... But a good idea is to open new thread about the Talmod, you can continue there, should I ?

Edit : vvv :wacko:

#665043 by unknown[10614] at 2006-08-11 19:43:35 (6 years ago) - [Report]

Sorry mods, one more post.

Thomas, I don't wanna get into yet another argument over the same thing again, but if you wanna get yourself educated, go to faithfreedom.org, and no, that's not my source, I was educated in koran like most muslim school kids.

I usually come here to relax and often get into some good arguments, there are lots of good posters here. I don't wanna get into religious ones because sooner or later it'll turn ugly.

BTW, few things might seem blah blah blah to people who don't know somethings, doesn't mean those are not true.

#665052 by negge (Power User) at 2006-08-11 19:56:37 (6 years ago) - [Report]

Thomas1234 wrote:

Negge, if some terorrists attack your house and take it from you killing few of your family, then they force you to live only in a small room while the terorrists live in the rest of your big house, you wait for justice from the government, from the police, day after day, but nothing has been solved, what will you do after that if you aren't Cowardly ? That's what is going on in the occupied Palestine. The palestinians won't give up and will never accept the occupation as a right for jews. Well, it isn't really childish, but it is a crime through a wide door.

Never knew that's the situation (if it really is), but why do they do that? Totally unnecessary. Is it really that hard to live in peace. How can some piece of land be worth fighting this much for? Don't muslims have any respect at all for the jews? Afterall they were the ones tortured and killed in concentration camps during WWII, giving them a land to live in where no one gas them to death is the least one could do.

Another thing I don't understand is why people keep saying that someone who says something bad has low IQ and stuff like that. Surely everyone has sometime got some info from a bad source.

#665265 by unknown[77969] at 2006-08-12 03:39:00 (6 years ago) - [Report]

Thomas1234 wrote:

I don't see how blowing up yourself with a suicide vest solves the problem.

#665295 by skk (Power User) at 2006-08-12 06:24:44 (6 years ago) - [Report]

If israel were to stop its blatant aggression there would be no retaliations.
The same way when efforts were made to build the settlements, there was alot of palestinian terrorist activity. Settlements went down, no more bombs on buses.

If palestine was given US military planes palestine would air strike israel and not use bombs on buses.
Since the US doesnt give anything to palestine but gives everything to israel, israel is the one who gets to air strike and palestine must use totally useless and ineffective methods.

If palestine had planes, they would air strike israel when israel starts expanding their occuption and illegal settlements. palestine doesnt have planes, therefore israel can build settlements because they have the outright overwhelming force. this is called being the "overwhelming aggressor".

#665297 by POTI Donor

(Power User) at 2006-08-12 06:33:24 (6 years ago) - [Report]

"http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49159"

Yeah we never give anything to the palestinians

#665314 by skk (Power User) at 2006-08-12 08:17:13 (6 years ago) - [Report]

im talking specifically about 250million+ dollar latest tech miltiary assault planes.
also bombs. also money that is not given to humanitarian assistance projects, but just simple funding.

funding a government directly and then comparing with "direct aid to the PA and nongovernmental organizations operating in the Palestinian territories" is not the same thing, the arguement has no merit.

i assure you the ratio in direct assistance by the US is overwhelmingly in israels favor. i read summary of official open disclosure and the difference is staggering. i dont have the data on hand but you could google it and see for yourself, explicit numbers from various sources.

#665360 by VeryBadGuy Donor

(Mad Ultra Mod) at 2006-08-12 11:21:40 (6 years ago) - [Report]

skk wrote:

i assure you the ratio in direct assistance by the US is overwhelmingly in israels favor. i read summary of official open disclosure and the difference is staggering. i dont have the data on hand but you could google it and see for yourself, explicit numbers from various sources.

I have posted the estimated figures in many threads over the years..you are right.
The difference being that if you give money to Palestine it never gets where it is supposed to be going.

#665436 by skk (Power User) at 2006-08-12 14:53:39 (6 years ago) - [Report]

The problem then is that the US is outfitting and financing 1 side and doing nothing for the other.
You cannot create the problem [by only outfitting 1 side] and then object that as soon as you give some money it is used to address the problem you created.

#665469 by VeryBadGuy Donor

(Mad Ultra Mod) at 2006-08-12 16:23:39 (6 years ago) - [Report]

skk wrote:

Sorry?
The problem I created?
I hate to break this to you but the US did not create the problem between Israel and Palestine.
Their continued financial support of Israel is something that rubs me the wrong way is true..specially after their selling on military secrets to the Chinese etc. But I hate to break this to you but a large portion of the military machinery used by the IDF is made in Israel.

As for not being able to object when the money we give to Palestinians is used to pay for weapons etc...I never said it was. It was funnled into Yassir Arafat's private accounts..not only him but a large portion of Fatah did it as well while their people went without. Why do you think that Hamas was elected over Fatah this time? Even Palestinians got tired of the rampant corruption that was going on under Fatah. But now what do we have? An avowed terrorist group in charge of a country...no other country in their right mind is even going to donate money to help them on the scale that they currently require. The PA should have used the money given to them by the EU and others to build up Palestine instead of trying to tear down Israel.

#665472 by unknown[5817] at 2006-08-12 16:31:02 (6 years ago) - [Report]

VeryBadGUy wrote:

I hate to break this to you but the US did not create the problem between Israel and Palestine.

But I think they helped creating it...

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