Serious Chat > Multiculturalism has failed in Europe

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#1417843 by mbodnar (Airborne Mod) at 2011-07-20 15:21:09 (2 years ago) - [Report]

dodeliatcha wrote:

I live in Sweden..the welfare is unbelievable here..it's really good..

Once upon a time there was (for some there still is) a stigma attached to welfare, you would never hear someone say how "good" it was. If you were taking government assistance of any kind people would hide it. Nowadays people don't really care if they can't make it on their own, nor are they ashamed to take what they haven't earned.

Quote:

Off topic much? If you want to argue pointless semantics then you're free to start a new thread in which you can do so.

That's not semantics. Governments provide to people only that which they forcibly extract from other people, therefore they pay for nothing only decide where other people's money will get reallocated.

#1417865 by lol2k345 Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-20 17:28:36 (2 years ago) - [Report]

About time, lets bring this to norway aswell, i cant wait to get shit done.

Instead of chaning our values to accomodate the cultures of those who flee to our country for various reasons, we should expect those who are so fortunate to come here to change their own ways to be able to work with us and not against us. Those that refuse can go back home and fight their war if their values are more important than their standard of living, life, and childrens well being. Maybe to some their values ARE more important than these things, well then we can be so polite as to send them back and let them exersize those. No mercy. Adapt or fail.

Last edited by lol2k345 at 2011-07-20 20:20:39

#1417903 by TheBlues (Power User) at 2011-07-20 22:13:30 (2 years ago) - [Report]

mbodnar wrote:

dodeliatcha wrote:

I live in Sweden..the welfare is unbelievable here..it's really good..

Perhaps in America, but not in Sweden. The stigma is still around, but there's a reason we have less homeless than you. Because when you fall, there's always someone to help you up. Also, we don't condemn people for who their parents are. If a kid has the ability and the will to go a university, he can. It doesn't matter how poor his parents are. In your country, birthright is what decides who falls and who doesn't. And when you fall, you stay down. Sounds pretty archaic and medieval IMO.

mbodnar wrote:

TheBlues wrote:

Off topic much? If you want to argue pointless semantics then you're free to start a new thread in which you can do so.

You forget what a government is. It's the chosen representatives of the people (at least it is here), so when I say that the government pays for something, it means that people have elected to to pay for it as a group.
We think that some rights should be given to all people regardless of their personal economics. Health care, education and basic food. Maybe you don't agree with us, and for that I'm grateful that you don't live in Sweden. We actually care for our fellow man here however strange that may sound to you.

lol2k345 wrote:

Instead of chaning our values to accomodate the cultures of those who flee to our country for various reasons, we should expect those who are so fortunate to come here to change their own ways to be able to work with us and not against us. Those that refuse can go back home and fight their war if their values are more important than their standard of living, life, and childrens well being. Maybe to some their values ARE more important than these things, well then we can be so polite as to send them back and let them exersize those. No mercy. Adapt or fail.

Should we force them to dress like us? Listen to the same music as us? They should follow our laws and speak our language (if I may include myself in the Scandinavian group even though I'm not ethnically one of you) and nothing else should be required of them. It's bullshit to ban minarets and shit. And by bullshit, I mean xenophobic.

Last edited by TheBlues at 2011-07-20 22:18:50

#1417909 by dodeliatcha (User) at 2011-07-20 22:24:40 (2 years ago) - [Report]

mbodnar wrote:

dodeliatcha wrote:

I live in Sweden..the welfare is unbelievable here..it's really good..

Yes there is still a stigma attached here..if you are on welfare..its not something you brag about..you try to hide it? Who said the stigma is gone?

You never hear how good it is from the ones that take it.? ^^

I'm a taxpayer and from my point of view the welfare that they get looks pretty good from here you know? Like.. they can't complain because they get alot..especially immigrants..thats what I meant..

lol2k345

I agree that we must have stricter assimilation rules....but how do we do that without limiting freedoms? Remember that those born in Norway are norwegian by national and international laws..

so if a somali kid is born in norway..and gets norwegian citizenship because his parents are norwegian citizens..then he will be regarded as a norwegian and a norwegian only by your national laws..and international laws (UN charters and treaties)..so forcing him to adapt..would be un-democratic..

so the best way..would be to restrict immigration as a hole..to only a percentage or two of current levels.. and to reduce welfare..

this is just a theory though..

#1417917 by Snuffsis (Power User) at 2011-07-20 22:38:31 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Meh, easily solved by just assigning areas in which they're allowed to move to and keep them there.
Because as it is now it doesn't matter where they get sent, they'll still move away from that area into other areas in which other people from their country live at. So they need to stop that from happening, either by force or something else.

Last edited by Snuffsis at 2011-07-20 22:44:35

#1417948 by mbodnar (Airborne Mod) at 2011-07-21 01:53:47 (2 years ago) - [Report]

TheBlues wrote:

Because when you fall, there's always someone to help you up. Also, we don't condemn people for who their parents are. If a kid has the ability and the will to go a university, he can. It doesn't matter how poor his parents are. In your country, birthright is what decides who falls and who doesn't. And when you fall, you stay down. Sounds pretty archaic and medieval IMO.

Cry me a river. I was raised by a single mother without a pot to piss in since wearing diapers and ended up at one of the best schools in the country. Mrs B had to wait until she was 30 when we were able to pay for it ourselves, and 2 of my 3 kids went to college without me writing a single check. We were handed nothing and now can live wherever and however we chose (within reason). Your birthright argument is pure shit, those with dedication and the willingness to work hard for what they want are the ones who get ahead.

#1417949 by deviant47 (Power User) at 2011-07-21 02:16:10 (2 years ago) - [Report]

mbodnar wrote:

Your birthright argument is pure shit, those with dedication and the willingness to work hard for what they want are the ones who get ahead.

Sometimes

#1417981 by lol2k345 Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-21 09:06:48 (2 years ago) - [Report]

No one is saying that you need to dress like me and listen to my music, get your head out of your ass , im so tired of these mornic twisted "examples" you people respond with all the time. What I am saying, and the politicians now seem to be willing to utter, is that your native ways will not be accomodated anymore if they do not fit with the lifestyle you had when you came here, and thus you are unable to function. If you cannot live as a member of our society because it is built on our values and those clash with the ones you bring with you, that is from now on your own problem, and you have two choices; Adapt or be fucked. Fair, dont you think?

If you are born in Norway and you are still not able to function in the norwegian society, your parrents are doing a shit job, and dont care about your well being. This is exactly whats going to change from now on, because that is exactly what has gone wrong. No longer will it be possible for those parrents (aka. 1. generation) to keep living as they were still in iraq or somalia, if they wish to survive in our western society. We will solve this by closing the borders, and those people can be really proud that they took the chance away from people who in the future needed to come here and were willing to make something out of them selves because they were fucking greatfull that the best country to live in in the whole world was willing to give them a second shot. Those people are now going to have to fight for their lives, instead of learning a language and getting a job.

Economic support will be limited, in such a way that you need to learn norwegian, and get a job in order to survive. I dont know any norwegians with a job willing to accomodate people who cannot work because it breaks with their native style of life, or damn ass lazyness because the system is so loosy goosy goodwill that you to this days can sit on your ass and give a fuck about the gift of freedom bestoved you when you came here because money flows into your account anyway (there are also native norwegians doing this). There are only possibilities laid before you when you get here, and if you do not wish to start a-new, you can fuck off back to where you came from or some other country built on your values (which you most probably already fled from), we dont need you and we dont want you, your spot goes to the next person actually willing to contribute.

The only immigrants I have respect for are those that wake up at 8 in the morning, take their kids to kindergarten or school, and go to work. Also those who are trying to get educated enough and wish to become a respectfull immigrant. When you have achived a job in Norway, and can live without taking my hard earned money, youre fine and i treat you as my neighbour and countryman. If you dont do any of this for no apprently good reason youre worth shit to me, and would step right over you sleeping in the gutter because obviously, that is where you chose to be. You always, fucking always, have a chance in this country to get on your feet, we spend alot of money on keeping it that way, and there is no excuse not to try, it is actually in insult to our country not to bother with it!

#1418228 by Dialog (Power User) at 2011-07-22 12:29:49 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Well said. Very well said.

And not that difficult to understand IMO. Wonder why it is so god damn hard to comprehend for so many people nowadays.

#1418270 by unknown[32479] at 2011-07-22 15:18:55 (2 years ago) - [Report]

First post-9/11 extremist attack in Norway?

BBC wrote:

Blast near prime minister's office in Oslo

A large explosion has hit near government headquarters in the Norwegian capital Oslo.

The blast is thought to have caused damage to the offices of Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and a number of other official buildings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14252515

Some pictures here - http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7722919

#1418279 by lol2k345 Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-22 15:37:17 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Very possible. We don't know yet.

#1418309 by unknown[32479] at 2011-07-22 16:31:04 (2 years ago) - [Report]

I must say, it do really feel different when it's this close. Wth are we doing to piss anybody off this much? Our military involvement in Libya and/or Afghanistan? Or (just) a waiting-to-be-deported immigrant/asylumseeker?

#1418310 by Snuffsis (Power User) at 2011-07-22 16:31:48 (2 years ago) - [Report]

protet wrote:

How about just being a democratic non-muslim free western country and supporting the US?

#1418314 by unknown[32479] at 2011-07-22 16:38:47 (2 years ago) - [Report]

I cannot believe that's reason enough for anybody, doesn't that sound more like a conspiracy thoery?

#1418320 by Snuffsis (Power User) at 2011-07-22 16:46:03 (2 years ago) - [Report]

If you've looked at all the protests going around, it's not that hard to believe. Muslim Extremists hating on democracy and freedom.

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.

Just one picture of many. If you google you can find articles and stuff about it.

#1418327 by Timex (Power User) at 2011-07-22 16:53:51 (2 years ago) - [Report]

deviant47 wrote:

mbodnar wrote:

Your birthright argument is pure shit, those with dedication and the willingness to work hard for what they want are the ones who get ahead.

Sometimes

@ mbodnar....
Remember those bumper stickers that used to say "Live better,work union"?
I and my work crews used markers to cross out the word union...."Live better,work".

#1418328 by Wolcom Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-22 16:54:29 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Multiculture is not a solution to a problem, it's denying that there is a problem.
Assimilation is the way to go.

If workers work together to force employers to give better rights for workers that can only be a good thing. Ofc. alot of unions are shit, but the ideology behind unionising is a sound one.

Last edited by Wolcom at 2011-07-22 16:55:40

#1418370 by unknown[32479] at 2011-07-22 17:50:42 (2 years ago) - [Report]

There has also been a shooting accident of sorts at AUF(norwegian Labour Partys youth) summercamp. Several has been shot, the police special forces are involved.

/snuffsis
I suppose me posting the news in this thread makes me literate enough to have had that as a part of my mindset, no?

#1418423 by AdakaR Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-22 19:43:53 (2 years ago) - [Report]

The shooter have been taken alive; White male 185-190cm, blonde hair.. so not related to this topic.

#1418425 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-07-22 19:51:53 (2 years ago) - [Report]

AdakaR wrote:

The shooter have been taken alive; White male 185-190cm, blonde hair.. so not related to this topic.

That is not true, it still can be related to this topic, but you are correct, until we know better we should leave it and discuss about the bombing in it's own thread in chit chat.

#1418505 by lol2k345 Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-23 00:43:04 (2 years ago) - [Report]

its is very much related, this man was against multiculturalism. we need to know more about why he did this tho, i see the patterns with who he targetted, and i suppose he was insane. i had feared something like this might happen one day, dumbass didnt realize that what he has done contradicts what the result will be when this is over.

i hope this can bring the people in norway closer

Last edited by lol2k345 at 2011-07-23 00:47:36

#1418508 by Wolcom Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-23 01:03:50 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Shooting 14year olds who attend a political summercamp is supposed to make others realise islam is bad?

I do not see his logical pattern, possibly because he's 100% insane.

#1418518 by unknown[32479] at 2011-07-23 01:39:03 (2 years ago) - [Report]

lol2k345 wrote:

[...]this man was against multiculturalism.

oh really? howso? as far as i'm aware, there has been no events supporting that claim. him being a lone mental case is - atleast as far as i've read - a far more likely scenario. his actions probably fits more into the pattern derived from the conspiracy as portraid indirectly by me and by snuffsis earlier in the thread; aka - a narrative involving a black hair/bearded, darker skinned, muslim fundamentalist and arab speaking man is today - summer 2011 that is - more known/profile-"friendlier".

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.
arrested ut�ya-gunman right

...yes, we're all bigoted and racists.

#1418577 by Snuffsis (Power User) at 2011-07-23 08:16:10 (2 years ago) - [Report]

From what i've heard they've atleast been speculating that he did it because of the dilly-dallying of immigrants and how it's become here in Scandinavia and he wanted it to end, by killing young innocent kids and blow up some politicians...
Insane people never makes any sense.

#1418583 by lol2k345 Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-23 08:35:50 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Yes he was in his own way, but i agree that he could not have had the faintest idea of what he was speaking of.

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