Serious Chat > Multiculturalism has failed in Europe

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
<< Prev Next >>

This topic has been autolocked for inactivity. If you have something to add, Click Here to request it is re-opened.

(Power User) at 2011-06-03 01:55:12 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Snuffsis wrote:

Same here in Sweden. Damn gypsies doing crazy hilarious things, like living 10 people in a 2 person apartment and never doing any work.

Once i saw a gypsy standing on one of those big carts like IKEA has, that you put furnitures on and shit, but when the guard told her to get off, she was hiding a fucking washing machine under her dress...

I totally read that as,

"Once I saw a gypsy standing on one of those big carts like ikea has, that you put furnitures on and shit."

Oddly enough since you said gypsy I was not supprised.

Last edited by jam1324 at 2011-06-03 01:55:26

#1407008 by THEBiZ (User) at 2011-06-03 07:11:05 (2 years ago) - [Report]

jam1324 wrote:

Snuffsis wrote:

Same here in Sweden. Damn gypsies doing crazy hilarious things, like living 10 people in a 2 person apartment and never doing any work.

I totally read that as,

"Once I saw a gypsy standing on one of those big carts like ikea has, that you put furnitures on and shit."

Oddly enough since you said gypsy I was not supprised.

That's typical gipsy stuff.

Here's a story:

There are some new apartment buildings near my neighbourhood, all modern architecture and shit like that.

Suddenly, at a given time i remember passing by the buildings and listening to loud music (flamenco or some other gipsy sounding crap) and ppl on the entrance of the building that looked totally gipsy.
I was like "wtf!?". I wasn't surprised they had the money to buy the apartment as they keep what they earn and pay absolutely 0 taxes, plus they sell drugs, counterfeits, etc, so yeah, there are some pretty wealthy gipsies out there. My real surprise was towards their presence there, a peaceful and classy neighbourhood and why would anyone on their right state of mind sell them an apartment.

It was only later that i found out about the scheme.
As i said, the building was new and so they paid someone to buy them an apartment there, moved to the house with the whole family and when other ppl came to see an apartment on the same building they'd just go ape shit and made the most noise possible and behaved the most uncivilized manner possible. This way, obviously no one would buy an apartment there. In fact, ppl ran from the deal like the devil runs from the cross... So what's the scheme? They wanted the building owner to buy them back the apartment for more money than they bought it for, which is something he was eventually forced to do, otherwise he would end up selling 0 apartments there (and there were 3 buildings there, all next to each other, all empty).

Last edited by THEBiZ at 2011-06-03 07:14:47

#1407024 by dodeliatcha (User) at 2011-06-03 08:13:13 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Are they really that clever? -.-

#1407035 by Sargoth (Power User) at 2011-06-03 09:18:26 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Dunno, but this is in Katrineholm sweden outside social welfare office: http://www.youtube.com/watch?f&v=n_FZiRQ82qs

#1407045 by dodeliatcha (User) at 2011-06-03 09:58:30 (2 years ago) - [Report]

yeah somalians are a big problem here in Sweden..I dont understand why we're taking in so many of them :S I mean sure..some of them need help..but the swedish government fails to help the ones that are already here :S:S

I hate that this leads to a society within a society..no national identity..

I am myself of foreign ethincity as ive said before

though I consider myself swedish since I was born here and I live, talk, dress, eat like a swede

and all my friends are swedish..

and even I can tell you that this is so damaging in the long term..it erodes our "national unity".. somalians in general are impossible integrate, :S not all ofc

good to see that my families taxes are being used in such a useful way..at a time when we need 80.000 USD to fix the damage in our basement -.- these somalians think we can pay higher taxes when we are barely keeping anything for ourselves...

cant someone just walk up to the prime minister and ask him: What the fuck are you doing????

EDIT : I dont wanna become like greece..living way beyond their means..we reduced some of the social security benefits because it wasnt sustainable in the long term..now these fuckers want more -.-

I dont blame them..I blame the prime minister and his administration for bringing them here..

Last edited by dodeliatcha at 2011-06-03 10:02:14

#1407053 by THEBiZ (User) at 2011-06-03 11:01:09 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Sargoth wrote:

Dunno, but this is in Katrineholm sweden outside social welfare office: http://www.youtube.com/watch?f&v=n_FZiRQ82qs

Loures, Lisbon suburbs.
Gipsies vs blacks vs police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq_4o1KQzpY

By the way, that neighbourhood is composed of social housing. Pretty much buildings that were given to the gipsies and the black ppl that don't want to work or do shit. They don't even deduct taxes...
If i want a similar home, i'll have to get myself in debt, work hard, pay my taxes, behave and don't get into trouble, etc, etc...

Another video:

Young black ppl get out of their neighbourhoods and wipe clean whole beaches, beating, robbing, abusing women, etc.
I remember going to those beaches when i was younger and getting in a lot of trouble there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjXtTfnaams

Last edited by THEBiZ at 2011-06-03 11:12:21

#1407131 by StarkM (Power User) at 2011-06-03 17:16:51 (2 years ago) - [Report]

What does "R�t vis At alla" mean? What they are protesting for?

#1407132 by Snuffsis (Power User) at 2011-06-03 17:19:00 (2 years ago) - [Report]

StarkM wrote:

What does "R�t vis At alla" mean? What they are protesting for?

Justice for all.

They're protesting that they're getting thrown out of their apartments and shit.

Last edited by Snuffsis at 2011-06-03 17:20:21

#1416276 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-07-12 16:20:17 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Every rape in oslo (norways capital) during the 5 past years have been committed by non western male (every solved case and every case where the victim was able to see the rapist).
The degrading of europe is going on at full speed and our political correct leaders don't do shit.
Similar figures can be found here in finland capital area and in sweden too.
Once proud nordic countries are now a playinground of muslim herds.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2011-07-12 16:49:47

#1416286 by SkeZa Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-12 17:01:01 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

If you've taken the time to do some research, you would have found that this claim has been debunked... But since you didn't bother, here's a nice graph for you:
(It's in norwegian but I assume that you can translate it yourself)

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.
2010

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.
Source: Norwegian Ministry of justice

sniperfin wrote:

Once proud nordic countries are now a playinground of muslim herds.

They also say nothing about the religion of the perpetrators. This little comment shows just how eager you are to jump on one perticular group of people and demonize them...

Next time try to do some actual fact checking before blindly following some nutter like a zealot...

Last edited by SkeZa at 2011-07-12 17:02:08

#1416291 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-07-12 17:26:24 (2 years ago) - [Report]

That does not debunk shit, it says

Quote:

Majoriteten av de registrerte gjerningsmennene i anmeldte voldtekter til Oslo i 2010 har norsk
statsborgerskap, liksom de har hatt ved alle de foreg�ende voldtektsunders�kelsene.

Which means that majority of of the rapists had norwegian citizenship. Just like here many of the rapists do have finnish citizenship, but when the names are released it's abdul and mohammeds.

Quote:

Selv om majoriteten av de registrerte gjerningsmennene har norsk statsborgerskap, har en h�y andel en annen landbakgrunn enn norsk.

There.

Quote:

Next time try to do some actual fact checking before blindly following some nutter like a zealot...

I didn't blindly follow anybody, the report in the video was based on the figures oslo police realesed and what the news were about.

#1416297 by SkeZa Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-12 17:43:29 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

That does not debunk shit, it says

Quote:

Majoriteten av de registrerte gjerningsmennene i anmeldte voldtekter til Oslo i 2010 har norsk
statsborgerskap, liksom de har hatt ved alle de foreg�ende voldtektsunders�kelsene.

Which means that majority of of the rapists had norwegian citizenship. Just like here many of the rapists do have finnish citizenship, but when the names are released it's abdul and mohammeds.

I might be mistaken so I wont go to hard on you on this point but doesn't every "native" norwegian also have norwegian citizenship? In which case, this entire quote is pointless.
If not, It does not show that every one of them were "non-westeners".

sniperfin wrote:

Quote:

Selv om majoriteten av de registrerte gjerningsmennene har norsk statsborgerskap, har en h�y andel en annen landbakgrunn enn norsk.

There.

There what? Do you think that the world only consists of norway and non-westerners?
I showed in the graph the country of origin of the perpetrator... And the majority of "non-westeners" (i.e. asians, africans and middle easteners) was only shown in 2007. All the other years (that are shown), the "non-westeners" were a minority or a tie.

So your bullshit claim of "every rape in oslo (norways capital) during the 5 past years have been committed by non western male" is shown to be false.

sniperfin wrote:

I didn't blindly follow anybody, the report in the video was based on the figures oslo police realesed and what the news were about.

I showed the actual figures that the oslo police released... all you showed were 2 youtube clips where one of them showed some norwegian women in an uniform...
The difference is that I think critically and search for actual sources, even if it is news. While you don't seem to do that.

And how is your argument different from someone who claims Fox news or Leni Riefenstahl as their source and claims that it must be legit?

#1416337 by TheBlues (Power User) at 2011-07-12 20:05:13 (2 years ago) - [Report]

SkeZa wrote:

All the other years (that are shown), the "non-westeners" were a minority or a tie.

So your bullshit claim of "every rape in oslo (norways capital) during the 5 past years have been committed by non western male" is shown to be false.

...

The difference is that I think critically and search for actual sources, even if it is news. While you don't seem to do that.

This, so much. Warning bells go off in my head when people who are normally very rational abandon their usual ways and label unsubstantiated claims as facts.

I agree that we should limit immigration and have a stricter policy on who we take in (I'm talking about Sweden and Finland) but you can't deny the irrational xenophobic arguments that (even intelligent) people use against the current immigration policies. Bringing forth statistics regarding rape and murder doesn't say much when you consider how many rapes there are in a country compared to the amount of immigrants. The sample sizes of the rapes and murders are just too small to have any scientific relevancy to this issue.

My mother was pregnant with me when she came to Sweden. We used to live in an area heavy with immigrants until I turned nine when we moved to a fancy and predominately Swedish area. I was the the only black child in my entire school and one out of two children with a 100% foreign ethnicity. So having both experienced both a shitty immigrant filled area and an area with no immigrants at all, I believe I have a relatively unique perspective on this issue.
And from that perspective, I see that ethnicity is a completely irrelevant factor in how well you integrate into society. I wasn't a very nice kid when I first came to the Swedish neighborhood. I was very aggressive and anti-social. It wasn't my fault though. I had been shaped by an anti-intellectual and rough area. Whether you integrate into society has only to do with the people you socialize with. And of course, a child will socialize with any and all nearby children. I know full blooded Swedes who grew up in bad neighborhoods, they turned out as foreign as the immigrants they live next to. And likewise, immigrants like me who grow up around Swedish children will turn out to be as Swedish as their neighbors. By having an immigration policy that forces immigrants into the Swedish society instead of gathering in ghetto-like clumps, we will solve this issue. Our generation might be screwed, but the next doesn't have to be.

Btw, shitty immigration policies don't only hurt Swedes (although I would probably not be robbed if I walked through a dangerous and immigrant heavy area). I, for one, am tired of people assuming that I'm a stereotypical immigrant when they see my ethnicity.

Last edited by TheBlues at 2011-07-12 20:08:39

#1416339 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-07-12 20:10:46 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Quote:

So your bullshit claim of "every rape in oslo (norways capital) during the 5 past years have been committed by non western male" is shown to be false.

True, it is only the rapes which are outside the home, the pdf also includes the rapes at home and not in the streets. The video also mentions that it is about the rapes in the streets (outside home).
SO every outdoor rape in oslo in the past 5 years has been committed by a person having non western background, which still is a fucking disgrace and we should take protective actions agaist the hordes who come here to rape and pillage.

#1416340 by dodeliatcha (User) at 2011-07-12 20:13:13 (2 years ago) - [Report]

TheBlues wrote:

...

Same here, they really need to fix this shit..I am a swede with immigrant background..

why they wont limit immigration is beyond me..and people say I am a hypocrit when I say that we should limit immigration because my parents immigrated here before I was born.. and therefore I cant complain..

Bullshit.. does that mean that neither Australia nor the United States can limit immigration with strong security checks and strict requirements? all americans have immigrant backgrounds..several generations...or one generation..doesnt matter..and they have no problem talking about immigration..legal and illegal..

They complain about right wing parties..however they never ask themselves why we have seen this sudden wave of anti immigrant parties..

Last edited by dodeliatcha at 2011-07-12 20:14:20

#1416350 by TheBlues (Power User) at 2011-07-12 20:55:36 (2 years ago) - [Report]

dodeliatcha wrote:

Bullshit.. does that mean that neither Australia nor the United States can limit immigration with strong security checks and strict requirements? all americans have immigrant backgrounds..several generations...or one generation..doesnt matter..and they have no problem talking about immigration..legal and illegal..

Is this a reply to my post?

#1416354 by deviant47 (Power User) at 2011-07-12 21:18:22 (2 years ago) - [Report]

dodeliatcha wrote:

why they wont limit immigration is beyond me..and people say I am a hypocrit when I say that we should limit immigration because my parents immigrated here before I was born.. and therefore I cant complain..

Immigration is limited already or do you think anyone can just move here?

#1416363 by SkeZa Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-12 21:52:43 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

... the pdf also includes the rapes at home and not in the streets.

That is true. But in your zeal you forgot that a accurate report would also include those numbers. But since you couldn't be bothered to do any research, again, I have taken upon myself to present you with facts:

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.

But even you wouldn't be foolish enough to argue that every party related rape can be considered to be indoors.

They also mention, several times actually, in the report about the reasons and some of the hidden statistics.. Important factors that play an important role in the interpretation.
But I guess then you wouldn't be interested in actual research when it is so much simpler to just point to a superficial aspect.

sniperfin wrote:

SO every outdoor rape in oslo in the past 5 years has been committed by a person having non western background, which still is a fucking disgrace and we should take protective actions agaist the hordes who come here to rape and pillage.

It doesn't say outdoor, it is assault. Clear difference.
Just for the record: There are currently about 170 000 immigrants and immigrant born people in oslo (that's counting all the non norwegian people so it also other europeans). source
The total number of reported rapes in 2010 committed by them were 99, which gives about 0.066 % of them. Damn those "hordes who come here to rape and pillage" indeed.
But again I feel obliged to point out that it is not as simple as you make it. There are other factors than their country of origins and/or colour of skin.

I'm sort of enjoying the way you're trying to worm your way through this argument. You made the claim:

Sniperfin wrote:

Every rape in oslo (norways capital) during the 5 past years have been committed by non western male (every solved case and every case where the victim was able to see the rapist).

Which I showed to be completely false and now your trying to change the argument to "outdoor", even though you have no proof what so ever.

Tried to blame it on muslims even though there was no proof other than a Pat Condell video claiming that they were all muslims.

You are just making claims without any proof and worse: Distorting facts in order to fit your preconceived notions.
That is what zealots do.

TheBlues wrote:

By having an immigration policy that forces immigrants into the Swedish society instead of gathering in ghetto-like clumps, we will solve this issue.

You make it seem like it's a "one size fits all" solution to a complex problem. It is not as simple as you make it out to be. It is not only the immigrants that have to make an effort, it is also the current inhabitants. If the immigrants feel an isolation from the rest of society it will not matter where you put them, they will still try to find people that they can interact with. Those people would most likely be other people from their country, who also might have the same problem.
If you doubt me then just think of your swedish countryman Jackie Arkl�v http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Arkl%C3%B6v

Last edited by SkeZa at 2011-07-12 21:59:52

#1416366 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-07-12 22:04:48 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Quote:

You are just making claims without any proof and worse: Distorting facts in order to fit your preconceived notions.
That is what zealots do.

Says the man who counts every immigrant ( 170k) and then uses it to calculate percentages of rape.
Lets start by reducing the women and kids for starters.
The fact is that in every nordic country the relative % in raping stats for immigrants is just enormously big, it must be something cultural and it should be allowed to discuss about and not silenced with accuses of islamophobia and similar.
It's not coincidence that in every european country the nationalist immigrant critical parties gain more and more votes every year.
Like here in finland from 5% to 19% and to 3rd biggest party in one huge historical leap.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2011-07-12 22:10:37

#1416381 by deviant47 (Power User) at 2011-07-12 22:22:08 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

It's not coincidence that in every european country the nationalist immigrant critical parties gain more and more votes every year.
Like here in finland from 5% to 19% and to 3rd biggest party in one huge historical leap.

Yeah its called economic recession, such events have always resulted in desperate searches for someone to blame and its usually the minorities that get picked.

#1416384 by SkeZa Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-12 22:31:53 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

Says the man who counts every immigrant ( 170k) and then uses it to calculate percentages of rape.
Lets start by reducing the women and kids for starters.

Then why don't you do that. I'm tired of being the only one of us that uses actual facts.

But I guess that I'll have to do your homework again:

Quote:

At the start of 2010, 54 percent of all immigrants were aged 20-44 years, while the corresponding figure for the population as a whole was 34 per cent.

Quote:

There were almost as many women as men
among immigrants in tota

That would make it 0,24 %. Those hordes are looking bigger and bigger, aren't they.
source

Sniperfin wrote:

... it must be something cultural and it should be allowed to discuss about and not silenced with accuses of islamophobia and similar.

Then do. Start showing (or calculate yourself) actual statistics that take into account known social causes of crimes, and other important factors, and show that there is a statistical (not just superficial, there are ways of calculating correlation in case you didn't know) correlation between ethnicity and crime. No one is denying you, it's just that you have nothing more than distortions and lies to present.

Stop trying to portrait yourself as a victim. This tiresome game has to end. I've seen you pull up this perticular card several times now even though noone has made any such claims.
I'm not accusing you of "islamophobia" or anything similar. I'm just pointing out that you are behaving as a religious fanatic.
But if you continue to be unable to provide any evidence for these beliefs of yours, then I'm guessing that these are just diversionary tactics.

Sniperfin wrote:

Nationalistic parties in Europe are not a new phenomena. But if you want my guess as to the rise of their recent popularity it would be that people are like you. Not basing their decisions on any logical reasons but rather on superficial prejudices, preconceived notions and/or populistic anger.

#1416386 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-07-12 22:33:44 (2 years ago) - [Report]

deviant47 wrote:

sniperfin wrote:

Yeah its called economic recession, such events have always resulted in desperate searches for someone to blame and its usually the minorities that get picked.

Nah, finnish economy is pretty good and the recession did not hit us too hard.
But the only immigration critical party here is also the only real EU critical party and the whole european "lets bail out all the countries who have lived without actually having the money" situation brought them a huge pile of votes too. People are not willing to support those who lied their way into euro and now we should give them loands and money so the whole euro won't collapse.

What I have learned (from exprerience and from reading about the subject) is that it is the single men who come here which are not integrated and most likely end up doing bad things.
Families usually have a much better chance to integrate (except somalis, who don't integrate in any form).
I know a bunch of muslims (none of them are religious though, but they are from muslim families and are muslims officially) who came here with their families when they were young boys (5-15), and they have had no difficulties to integrate.

Quote:

It's pretty simple, the relative percentage in immigrant crimes is way above the average, way above.
No matter what the cause is, why should we take more people who end up in such way that they are more likely to commit crimes and who are not integrating into the society ?
Shouldn't we fix the problem first before taking more and more people in ?
What comes to poverty for example, I don't buy it causes crime and many statistics support that view.
In some individual cases, yeah, but as in general, no.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2011-07-12 22:45:36

#1416391 by Snuffsis (Power User) at 2011-07-12 22:41:16 (2 years ago) - [Report]

I can say for sure that the integration policy is FUCKED UP.
I live in one of the areas where most of the immigrants get sent to, whole areas here are filled with only immigrants, there are no "swedes" living there anymore because the immigrants have actually ruined the place. (Cops have been shot there and lots of random fun).

They need to send immigrants all over sweden and place laws that actually STOP them from moving anywhere else for like 30-40 years, unless it's directly close families such as parents /kids.
Because now they just do that, those who do get placed randomly just move to a different area where there is pretty much all mulsims, or all somalis or whatever.

#1416408 by SkeZa Donor

(Power User) at 2011-07-12 23:14:40 (2 years ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

It's pretty simple, the relative percentage in immigrant crimes is way above the average, way above.

Again you come back with no evidence and arguments based of superficial reasons.

Sniperfin wrote:

No matter what the cause is, why should we take more people who end up in such way that they are more likely to commit crimes and who are not integrating into the society ?

So let me ask you something: If I said "It doesn't matter what causes lightning, let's just say god did it and be done with it", would that be a satisfactory answer in your opinion?
But being realistic: Since humans instinctively use a bell curve (Gaussian distribution) to determine these types of statistics for themselves, there will always be people that fall short of the average. Always.
Your solution is to target the current bottom procent. But if you do, there will arise a new bottom procent. It's not a solution, it is at best a delay tactic.

Sniperfin wrote:

Shouldn't we fix the problem first before taking more and more people in ?

If you don't know the cause, then you cannot fix the problem.
You also have that European and nordic agreements that do not allow you to refuse entry or residency (unless legal suspicions) to their citizens. And my guess would be that you would just turn to those people after your done with your current scapegoats.

Sniperfin wrote:

I don't buy it causes crime

But actual scientist and statisticians show that it does. What formal training or scientific, peer-reviewed research have you performed in order to reach this conclusion?

Sniperfin wrote:

many statistics support that view.

And you fail to present a single shred of evidence for your case.

Last edited by SkeZa at 2011-07-12 23:14:51

#1416416 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-07-13 00:06:19 (2 years ago) - [Report]

Quote:

If you don't know the cause, then you cannot fix the problem.

Then you have to find the cause first.
It's clear that taking more immigrants only makes it worse.

Quote:

So let me ask you something: If I said "It doesn't matter what causes lightning, let's just say god did it and be done with it", would that be a satisfactory answer in your opinion?

My point was that the reason is not the key here, the fact that there are problems is.
If you build a house to certain place and it is hit by lighting all the time and destroyed, you should first built your house to a different place and see if it is not hit by lightning and after that you can start to examine what causes the lightning. Building a house to the place where lightning hits and always destroys it is not wise.
Aka if immigrants cause huge problems in society the solution is to find and fix first, then take more immigrants if the problems are fixed.

Quote:

Again you come back with no evidence and arguments based of superficial reasons.

http://www.cis.org/ImmigrantCrime
http://www.thelocal.se/2683/20051214/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/world … rmany.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p … 980432.ece

etc. etc.

Quote:

But actual scientist and statisticians show that it does. What formal training or scientific, peer-reviewed research have you performed in order to reach this conclusion?

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com/2010 … emolished/
http://everything2.com/title/The+Myth%2 … e+of+Crime
http://www.enotes.com/crime-criminals-a … ause-crime
http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/aug/24 … -disagree/

I have read studies and writings (from people who have studied the issue) about the issue. Poverty alone is not something to blame, it is only one factor.
Btw. you rant about no evidence to me and yet you in your own post write "but actual scientists and statisticians show that it does" and provide nothing to support that.
Also if poverty would be a major cause for crimes, why should we take people who are likely to end up living in poverty and therefore wold me more likely to commit crimes (due the fact that they don't want to learn the language, they don't want to integrate to society and culture etc.) ?

Quote:

Which I showed to be completely false and now your trying to change the argument to "outdoor", even though you have no proof what so ever.

I used outside home to clarify what I mean by outside home.
That is what I understand by assault rape.
And the police report says that,nobody has debunked that.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2011-07-13 00:44:25

This topic has been autolocked for inactivity. If you have something to add, Click Here to request it is re-opened.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
<< Prev Next >>

This topic is locked; no new posts are allowed.