Serious Chat > Multiculturalism has failed in Europe

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#1522822 by Benz (Power User) at 2013-03-01 07:36:43 (4 months ago) - [Report]

mselo4ever4 wrote:

you can hate Islam

In order to hate something i need to care - which i don╰.

#1522827 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-01 09:28:19 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Quote:

They do blame their leadership, who are all assigned by westeren conutries, for Example Saudi Arabia

Who are all assigned by west, lol.
How can you expect us to take you seriously when you write nonsense like that ?

Quote:

you can hate Islam

Thanks for the permission. I do hate systems which support things like islam does, systems which claim to be beyond critisism and claim to be the only truth.
Systems where people are not equal, where women are treated like live stock.

I also hate the double standards we western countries have with for example saudi arabia.

Quote:

You blame Islam for that too?

There are many reasons why non western countries are filled with people who are not happy, one of the reasons is islam,another one is greedy leaders (africa for example where many regimes are corrupted as hell, the money does not spread to people but end up in the pockets of their leaders).

#1522851 by mselo4ever4 (User) at 2013-03-01 15:29:37 (4 months ago) - [Report]

I am not expecting you to take me sreiously and i am not taking you seriously since i made a post about "A cure found for racism" and how it made you mad

And your last post proves me right

#1522859 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-01 16:12:39 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Quote:

I am not expecting you to take me sreiously and i am not taking you seriously since i made a post about "A cure found for racism" and how it made you mad

It didn't make me mad, it made me laugh. If you make a study about racism and your study group is 36 white males, then the answer is already known before we even start to study, the racist is you.

And then when the article starts with "The beta-blocker drug can reduce 'subconscious' racism, the Oxford University study found. " then there is nothing more else to do than either cry or laugh, I chose to laugh.

This good old picture proves that it's message is relevant and stays relevant:

Quote:

And your last post proves me right

What does my previous post exactly prove, and why ?

#1522883 by mrunne (Power User) at 2013-03-01 18:02:42 (4 months ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

If you make a study about racism and your study group is 36 white males, then the answer is already known before we even start to study, the racist is you.

This is so true, but what the (for example) the Somalis do here in Finland would never be classified as racism. The black person shouts something profane to the white it's nothing, but the moment the white person shouts something it's racism. And the immigrants take everything to the police and the police investigate the racism, but I've never heard of a white persons calls for racism from the immigrants that the authorities would take it seriously.

Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder and this goes for racism too.

#1522896 by mbodnar (Airborne Mod) at 2013-03-01 20:25:32 (4 months ago) - [Report]

It's a crime to be racist in Finland, and if someone is suspected of being such they can be investigated, and possibly disciplined, for it?

People here in the states get scorned and ridiculed for being racist, as they should be, but real life Orwellian thought police is taking it to another level. A level that excludes any semblance of freedom.

#1522903 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-01 21:24:01 (4 months ago) - [Report]

mbodnar wrote:

It's not crime, only if you publish/spead direct hate speeches or such indirect hate speeches which are used to agitate the audience taking violent actions towards somebody.
But that law is interpret pretty much a hypocrite way.
For example christians and muslims who talk shit about gay people (using harsh language) don't cause any actions, but when of of our parlament members said that islam glorifies mohammed and his actions (which is true) and because mohammed was a pedofile it means that islam glorifies pedofilia. He was fined for that. When he in court said that everything he said is true and pointed out things which proved that islam glorifies mohammed and he just used reasoning and logic when he made the conclusion, the court said that when we address religion one can't use reasoning and logic. The whole country laughed to our courtsystem that day.
But those political correct assholes are what they are.
Whats funny is that blashemy actually is a crime here, dunno when somebody last was accused of it.

#1522909 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2013-03-01 22:05:12 (4 months ago) - [Report]

mbodnar wrote:

It is a crime in Denmark and the rest of the Scandinavian countries, as far as I know:

(penal code 266b)"Whoever publicly, or with intention to disseminating in a larger circle makes statements or other pronouncement, by which a group of persons is threatened, derided or degraded because of their race, colour of skin, national or ethnic background, faith or sexual orientation, will be punished by fine or imprisonment for up to 2 years.
Sec. 2. When meting out the punishment it shall be considered an especially aggravating circumstance, if the count has the character of propaganda."

Example http://alex-l.blogspot.dk/2010/03/danis … acist.html

A police commissioner's freedom of speech and obligation towards his job gets threatened by a PC politician. Pointing out that east European criminals are particular ruthless isn't racist.
If you removed those laws people would still see through illogical argumentation and sweeping generalizations. But as it is, those laws hinder free speech in practice.

#1523032 by unknown[530062] at 2013-03-02 20:26:13 (4 months ago) - [Report]

It's normal to be racist in scandinavia as long as you are not open about it, you have to do it subliminally ie. mohammed drawings, lars vilks drawing of a mohammed as a dog etc. And then when someone calls you a racist, then you must claim that you are exercising free speech. Of course the most white nations of the world are the most racist, they have just found new ways of expressing it covertly and legally. The white man as always will refuse to be a racist but instead a "political activist" fighting for his rights and well being of his country. Hitler did the same thing.

#1523034 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2013-03-02 20:39:36 (4 months ago) - [Report]

there is a major difference between race and ideology.

#1523037 by unknown[530062] at 2013-03-02 20:54:46 (4 months ago) - [Report]

qbert95 wrote:

there is a major difference between race and ideology.

Yes, but the so called antiracism laws have race side by side with religion. Also if most immigrants didn't have muslim background they would find another way of displaying their racism.

#1523066 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-03 02:51:15 (4 months ago) - [Report]

When you have a 5 dyas old account holding anick arabnuts and your posts are only either trolling or made for seeking a fight, Im more than happy to disable your ass.
Reasonable discusson is ok, but blant out shit in multiple threads is evidence enough for me, bye.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2013-03-03 02:51:50

#1523076 by TheBlues (Power User) at 2013-03-03 06:08:58 (4 months ago) - [Report]

mrunne wrote:

Are you seriously comparing institutionalized racism with insults on the street? Please, fucking please tell me that I don't have to explain why what you're saying is completely retarded. Do you really think the police in Scandinavia investigates when blacks get called slurs on the street? If so then I should probably head to the police station since I have literally countless of crimes to report.

What is it with you people!? Someone calls you "fucking white boy" once and you launch a campaign to stop reverse racism? You have no idea of the shit that an average immigrant has to take during the course of a year. Believe me, the innocent racial jokes that one hears EVERYDAY to the slurs being shouted at you during late weekend nights by SD supporters is not even considered racism, it's just an annoyance.

Seriously mrunne, what the fuck?

#1523090 by mrunne (Power User) at 2013-03-03 10:34:17 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Ok, chill mate. Lets discuss like rational beings. Lets break it down for you

TheBlues wrote:

I am not comparing anything. The thing is here in Finland the police are required by law to investigate any complaint given to them. They just dont dare (for fear of being called racists) or just plain dont take seriously any complaint made by the "indigenous" population. So if you give a slur on the street as a born and bred white Finn they (meaning the recipient) rushes off to the police screaming racism and they have to investigate if you are a racist. I do not know how many of these go all the way to getting fined (or punished somehow) but stuff like this ties up police resources.

TheBlues wrote:

What is it with you people!? Someone calls you "fucking white boy" once and you launch a campaign to stop reverse racism? You have no idea of the shit that an average immigrant has to take during the course of a year. Believe me, the innocent racial jokes that one hears EVERYDAY to the slurs being shouted at you during late weekend nights by SD supporters is not even considered racism, it's just an annoyance.

Seriously mrunne, what the fuck?

Personally you could tell jokes about me and shout inventive slurs at me all day and I'd just laugh along with you. I really dont care and I think more people should be able to laugh at themselves.

My daughter hangs out with a girl from Bangladesh whose father owns a indian style restaruant. I actually welcome these kind of immigrants that want to work and try hard to assimilate into the normal society. I do now know what religion they adhere to, only that she was at our place for dinner once and told us that her father does not like to eat pork. So we made beef hamburgers instead. No biggie

What I hate is the "refugee" that is only after money and an easy lifestyle.

Last edited by mrunne at 2013-03-03 12:14:54

#1523195 by TheBlues (Power User) at 2013-03-04 11:07:26 (4 months ago) - [Report]

mrunne wrote:

Ok, chill mate. Lets discuss like rational beings. Lets break it down for you

Fine, let's do this the calm and rational way. First of all, I would like to state that I find it very unlikely that the Finnish police would treat racism against the ~~indigenous~~ Caucasian population (I doubt you're referring to sami people) any differently than they treat racism against non-Caucasians. Since you're making the claim then you hold the burden of proof and I therefore demand some sort of source or supporting evidence for your claim. If you cannot comply with my demand then I will consider your claim retracted.

Is that rational enough for you?

mrunne wrote:

Personally you could tell jokes about me and shout inventive slurs at me all day and I'd just laugh along with you. I really dont care and I think more people should be able to laugh at themselves.

Yes, I bet you'd really enjoy being called demeaning slurs and being the butt of racial jokes every single day of your life. There's no way that would in any way become tiresome after 20 years.

mrunne wrote:

My daughter hangs out with a girl from Bangladesh whose father owns a indian style restaruant. I actually welcome these kind of immigrants that want to work and try hard to assimilate into the normal society. I do now know what religion they adhere to, only that she was at our place for dinner once and told us that her father does not like to eat pork. So we made beef hamburgers instead. No biggie :]

By the gods!
Surely, you jest my good sir?! You actually adhered to the dietary preferences of your household guests?! You have left me speechless and I can't help but wonder why we haven't built a monument to your honor.

Seriously though dude, do you expect some type of recognition for treating your daughter's immigrant friend as a fellow human being?

mrunne wrote:

What I hate is the "refugee" that is only after money and an easy lifestyle.

Let me ask you, do you personally know such a refugee or are you just assuming that every immigrant that you haven't personally confirmed is a 'good immigrant' is only after money and an easy lifestyle?

You seem like a nice guy and I know I might sound a bit hostile. But it's only because I'm tired of going through discussions with people who hate every immigrant they haven't met but have no problem with those they've met, if you understand my point.
People like you have a tendency to hate the picture of immigrants they have in their head but when they actually meet and get to know an immigrant they make an exception to the stereotype without actually realizing that the entire stereotype is bullshit.

#1523197 by mrunne (Power User) at 2013-03-04 12:39:01 (4 months ago) - [Report]

TheBlues wrote:

I read it in a news paper (www.iltalehti.fi) search for it there.

Theres this lawyer that makes his living doing nothing but make silly claims to the police for russians mainly I think it was. Here is one article about it. I cba to translate for you, so you do that yourself
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2012120 … 8_uu.shtml

TheBlues wrote:

Yes, I bet you'd really enjoy being called demeaning slurs and being the butt of racial jokes every single day of your life. There's no way that would in any way become tiresome after 20 years.

I was teased at school for 12 years without anyone doing anything about it. If I can handle it then so can they or they have the option to move back to the hellhole they came from since its so much better there. I did not have the option of moving school.

TheBlues wrote:

By the gods!

Surely, you jest my good sir?! You actually adhered to the dietary preferences of your household guests?! You have left me speechless and I can't help but wonder why we haven't built a monument to your honor.

Seriously though dude, do you expect some type of recognition for treating your daughter's immigrant friend as a fellow human being?

I expect nothing from you or anyone else. I was merely sharing a fact about how I am not a racist.
:

TheBlues wrote:

I never made a claim that every immigrant I have not met is such an immigrant. But I do claim I see a lot of layabouts when walking around. They are usually very pushy and arrogant with a sense of self entitlement which I resent.

TheBlues wrote:

You seem like a nice guy and I know I might sound a bit hostile. But it's only because I'm tired of going through discussions with people who hate every immigrant they haven't met but have no problem with those they've met, if you understand my point.
People like you have a tendency to hate the picture of immigrants they have in their head but when they actually meet and get to know an immigrant they make an exception to the stereotype without actually realizing that the entire stereotype is bullshit.

I am generally a nice guy

But statistics already show that immigrants have a huge portion of crimes considering how "few" there are of them. It makes you think something is not right and so shapes the image of immigration which as you say might be stereotypical.

edit: fix tags

mrunne edit: THanks for fixing my tags, I hit reply and had to run for two nights away from a computer

Very sorry about the trouble.

Last edited by mrunne at 2013-03-06 10:11:25

#1523198 by TheBlues (Power User) at 2013-03-04 13:38:53 (4 months ago) - [Report]

mrunne wrote:

Theres this lawyer that makes his living doing nothing but make silly claims to the police for russians mainly I think it was. Here is one article about it. I cba to translate for you, so you do that yourself
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2012120 … 8_uu.shtml

He has only won 6 cases which means that he's not getting paid by the government, or the people he's suing. So what's the problem? Do you think you get money even if you lose a court case?

Also, that link says nothing about immigrants or natives. And judging by his name, it seems to prove MY point that racism against Finnish people is being dealt with as seriously as racism against immigrants.

mrunne wrote:

Yes, but you didn't say that they should handle it, you said that they should be able to laugh at themselves and enjoy it.
Tell me, did you enjoy being bullied for 12 years?

mrunne wrote:

That's not surprising but it doesn't mean that it's okay. The statistics say that foreignborn immigrants are twice as likely to be criminals. Think about that for a moment.

That means that if 5/1000 of everyone born in Scandinavia is a criminal then 10/1000 of every foreign born immigrant is a criminal. Twice of a very small percentage is still a very small percentage. Would you say that all thousand of those immigrants are to be treated as criminals just because they have 5 more criminals in their midst?
Of course not.
Statistics can be very hard to understand and substantiate without a proper education which is why it's the #1 tool for spreading propaganda.

#1523201 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-04 14:30:36 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Quote:

That means that if 5/1000 of everyone born in Scandinavia is a criminal then 10/1000 of every foreign born immigrant is a criminal. Twice of a very small percentage is still a very small percentage. Would you say that all thousand of those immigrants are to be treated as criminals just because they have 5 more criminals in their midst?
Of course not.
Statistics can be very hard to understand and substantiate without a proper education which is why it's the #1 tool for spreading propaganda.

Ofcourse it's not a reason to treat everybody who represents a group which has highter criminality as a criminal.
But when we take immigrants is it racist to favor (or suggest that we favour) groups where criminality in average is lower ?
Or where groups where peope ingetrate much better to society and have noticeable higher employment rate for example ?

Quote:

Statistics can be very hard to understand and substantiate without a proper education which is why it's the #1 tool for spreading propaganda.

I agree, especially when two groups compared are in size very different.
For example a group having 10 000 representives against a group having 1000 000 representives.
10 rapists in the group of 10k means 0.1%. If larger group has 500 rapists, it's still ony half of the percentage from the 10k group, but the number is much more significant in the total amount of 550.
And if we only talk about rapes, it can be that one member of the frist group is responsible for 7 individual rapes meaning that the percentage of people will drop dramatically. In smaller groups a person/small criminal group responsible of multiple crimes can distort the overall view dramatically.
If we try to tacle the problem by only looking at the precentage (forusing on the group having twice as high percentage), it's not gonna work. With the best outcome we have reduced the total amount of rapes from 550 to 500, which I don't call solving a problem.
Just reading statistics without analyzing data is pretty useless in situations where there are lot's of things which can distort the outcome.

Never the less, it still a problem when a group, small or big has a huge overrepresantion is certain statistics. Immigration should not be a must at any costs.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2013-03-04 14:38:42

#1523329 by Sargoth (Power User) at 2013-03-05 17:17:19 (4 months ago) - [Report]

http://ibnrushd.se/images/PDF/report_a4_frg1.pdf

Quote:

Foreword
This report in response to the Swedish government抯 19th, 20th, and 21st periodic report to the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is the result of collaboration between Swedish Muslim organisations. It represents the point of view of some of the leading Swedish Muslim organisations concerning the increasingly racist and Islamophobic climate in Sweden and it is historic in that it marks the !rst time such a broad group of Swedish Muslims addresses the United Nations as one body. Our aim is to bring the many violations of Swedish Muslims� human rights and civil liberties to the attention of the CERD committee.
The Swedish Muslims in Cooperation Network was established three years ago, after the 2010 Swedish
parliamentary elections where the Sweden Democrats, an Islamophobic party, was elected into parliament.
Since then we have witnessed how established parties have exploited the same questionable sentiments as the Sweden Democrats to gain favour with the voters and how the government have failed to deal with the alarming situation where Swedish Muslims� human rights are concerned.
Stockholm, February, 2013

Quote:

As a matter of great urgency, the government should allocate resources for Muslim safety just as it has done for the purpose of Jewish safety. The government should take notice of the greater size of the Swedish Muslim community as well as its wishes, when determining the size and the form of the funding.
(Main text: par 46-48)

They obviously forgot to mention their own countrymen being the factor when it comes to the racist discrimination, harassing and threatening of the Jews in Malm� and probably other cities.

If they hate it so much in Sweden that they file a discrimination report why not seek asylum or move to another muslim country to be with their own kind and religion where their human rights won't be discriminated or violated. But then again Shi'ite and Sunni muslims can't live together without bombing each other mosques, or having death squads going street to street killing each other. We don't need their clan conflicts moving on to our country which will eventually happen once they are large enough demograficly...

Instead of demanding that society adapt to them, why not adapt to the society they are the "guests" in?

#1523331 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-05 17:31:30 (4 months ago) - [Report]

When ever I see the word "islamofobic" I know Im reading bullshit and I can leave it there.

#1523415 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-05 22:45:26 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Yet another gangrape in sweden. The suspects for the rape of a 15 year old girl are:

If a white guy beats a non white, the automatic question for most is "was the motive racist".
Why isn't it the same when these cases, especially when we know that rape is in most cases related to the rapist practising power over the victim ?
When incidents like this happens and happen more and more regulary, is it islamofobia for a father to not want his daughter hang around in places where there are "youth" gangs like this ?
Or is it drunkamofobia when father warns his daughter to stay way from that gang of drunken men who usually mingle in the local shopping center parking lot ?

Last edited by sniperfin at 2013-03-05 22:47:59

#1523431 by TheBlues (Power User) at 2013-03-05 23:37:37 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Sargoth wrote:

If they hate it so much in Sweden that they file a discrimination report why not seek asylum or move to another muslim country to be with their own kind and religion where their human rights won't be discriminated or violated.

So immigrants don't have the same rights as natives in terms of protection? I guess we're not allowed to call the police when we get robbed or abused because we should be happy to be in this country.

sniperfin wrote:

I hardly think that the automatic question for most is "was the motive racist" in terms of a white beating a non-white.

Furthermore, the name of the victim in that case is unknown and so is her ethnicity. Of course, it's no surprise that you assume that the victim was a native Swede considering the stereotype that immigrants come to this country to abuse people. But if you analyze statistics, it's more likely that the victim of the crime was an immigrant.
But perhaps you've abandoned logic and reason to the allure of stereotyping, after all it's so much easier that way.

MB edit: Personal insults are not tolerated here.

Last edited by mbodnar at 2013-03-06 02:35:48

#1523432 by Sargoth (Power User) at 2013-03-05 23:49:12 (4 months ago) - [Report]

TheBlues wrote:

So immigrants don't have the same rights as natives in terms of protection? I guess we're not allowed to call the police when we get robbed or abused because we should be happy to be in this country.

Of course they have the same rights, but starting say a car-fire then pelting the police and fire department with rocks or shooting off fireworks at them, or attempting to burn out their eyes with lasers when they show up to put it out. Then cry that police, firefighters or rescue workers no longer want to enter their neighbourhood without police escort kinda voids their rights to it imo.

#1523435 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-03-06 00:02:50 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Quote:

Furthermore, the name of the victim in that case is unknown and so is her ethnicity. Of course, it's no surprise that you assume that the victim was a native Swede considering the stereotype that immigrants come to this country to abuse people. But if you analyze statistics, it's more likely that the victim of the crime was an immigrant.

I didn't assume I based it on reasonable expectations (vast majority of the gangrapes here in finland in recent past have been immigrants raping a local).

Quote:

I hardly think that the automatic question for most is "was the motive racist" in terms of a white beating a non-white.

Could be, but that is the questiong which is on headlines, my critique was mainly towards the press and media which has it's own style of reproting about these kind of news.

#1523437 by Belnick (Power User) at 2013-03-06 00:13:17 (4 months ago) - [Report]

Sargoth wrote:

TheBlues wrote:

So immigrants don't have the same rights as natives in terms of protection? I guess we're not allowed to call the police when we get robbed or abused because we should be happy to be in this country.

I would not say same, but some would be better

free drivers licence, free dentist care and now muslims don't wanna pay interest on loans as it against their religion, I will go muslim if our government approve this crap, i would save about 200 euro a month

TheBlues is a leftist? like those crazy ppl that dont think we been to the moon lol
even if their daughters and mothers would be raped once a month for 2 years by muslim immigrants, they would still defend the rapists

how hard is it, everyone that don't want to eat pork is not getting in, build "prisons"(for our and their safety) on 鰈and or gotland where they can stay till the wars are over
or have some kind of law that if they do a single crime in the first 20 years they live in sweden and they lose their citizenship and will be deported

there will be a new crusade, at least in sweden within the next 100 years...

if my daughter was Elin Krantz(google), then i would not care that Ephrem Tadele Yohannes was in jail, he would die anyway, somehow.

and everytime a leftist gonna answer about immigrant rapes they toss out a swedish fat pedophile murderer and say "what about him, not only muslims that rapes"

Of course not, but WE DID NOT IMPORT HIM, he was born here, we can deal with our own filth, but why should we deal with filth from other countries??
why import criminals ?

edit, the blues know that the victims name is often protected and harder to find out(which it should be, been through enough), while the criminals are very easy to find out and can therefore say that we jump to conclusion

Last edited by Belnick at 2013-03-06 00:15:08

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