Serious Chat > Multiculturalism has failed in Europe

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#1441322 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2011-11-09 17:51:34 (1 year ago) - [Report]

Good law which works when we talk about official marriages.
But there is nothing that law can do about those who are married by a cleric/iman/priest but are not officially married so the state actually knows they are married.
They get non officially married when the girl hits 16 and then officially when the age of the law is aquired.

#1441343 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2011-11-09 18:37:40 (1 year ago) - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

Lets not in the name of multiculturalism fool ourselves here, there isn't talk about an equal share of blame. We are talking about Islam, not clerics or priests. The imams have no judicial power until the term of requirements are met. There has been arrangements between teenagers, typically non-muslim girls and muslim boys to make their relationship legal (for muslim boys), both are forced to tend to other things meanwhile such as education or work (=integration) - instead of living of welfare.

Last edited by hOG at 2011-11-09 18:39:36

#1516595 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2013-01-17 16:05:14 (6 months ago) - [Report]

The videos from the link below have provoked outrage from non-Muslims, but the wider Muslim community that have nothing to do with this will remain silent, or.. In order for the multicultural project to show that it is a success respect for democracy and not least the culture of England, in this case, must be supported and shown.

'Muslim Patrol' vigilantes attempt to control London streets and wants to take away beer from the Brits..

"Thugs masquerading as 'Muslim Patrols' have been accosting residents in London, demanding they abide by the laws of what they deem a 'Muslim area'"

News link, click here

Story originally broke on Liveleak and so far no UK mainstream media has picked it up, this in spite of its relative frequency (this has been seen in other countries as well). Generally, it must be very difficult to integrate people that perceive Sharia as divine law and having them understand at the same time that they must live under laws that are made by unbelievers. Sharia was granted to believers by Allah through the Quran and the hadiths and is a fundamental part of Islam. It guides a Muslim on all aspects of life, what is permitted and what is forbidden, what the penalties are if you break the laws. It also guides Muslims on humility, charity and taxes and also how to tax unbelievers. You are a bad Muslim if you do not follow Sharia.

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.

/edit: http://www.torrentbytes.net/forum_viewt … st#1419942

Last edited by hOG at 2013-01-17 16:14:49

#1516597 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-01-17 16:27:14 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Unlocked, so everybody can comment the good news hOG provided.

#1516600 by THEBiZ (User) at 2013-01-17 16:50:35 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Sharia patrols? lol

UK needs to take action against this thing right now, otherwise it's just going to spread... It's f'ing ridiculous as is revolting and it's not even my country.

#1516604 by saladthumb (Power User) at 2013-01-17 17:25:05 (6 months ago) - [Report]

hOG wrote:

You are a bad Muslim if you do not follow Sharia.

nothing prevents them from moving to a country that's down with the Sharia

#1516627 by tidus (Power User) at 2013-01-17 20:00:39 (6 months ago) - [Report]

They should round up these patrols, arrest every one of them and send them back to where they came from. Enough is enough.

#1516639 by Timex (Power User) at 2013-01-17 20:53:08 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Quote:

wants to take away beer

To arms!

#1516641 by DXC Donor

(The King) at 2013-01-17 21:02:54 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Sometimes I wish Hitler was still alive, he would know how to take care of this problem once and for all :-/

All that political blablabla isn't solving anything. We can respect everyone and everything we want, but they have never and will never do the same to others. It's just a matter of time before we get that kind of crap here in NL as well, sadly we already have related crap like that too...

#1516643 by unknown[81460] at 2013-01-17 21:24:37 (6 months ago) - [Report]

I would rather have Muslims etc than some of the interbred Nazi bastards some euro countries seem to "in breed"

#1516645 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2013-01-17 21:47:48 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Timex wrote:

Quote:

wants to take away beer

To arms!

thank you, Homer lol

@DXC

Hitler, and many of those closest to him, didn't really mind radical Islam as they could work together, because of their antisemitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf … ailability

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf … c_language

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … rabic.html

Muslim Patrols in the red light districts and the Dutch will revolt

Last edited by hOG at 2013-01-17 21:52:48

#1516651 by DXC Donor

(The King) at 2013-01-17 21:56:19 (6 months ago) - [Report]

hOG wrote:

Hitler, and many of those closest to him, didn't really mind radical Islam as they could work together, because of their antisemitism.

True, but if Hitler succeeded in his plans, would you believe he would spare them?

Hitler's ways of keeping order were extreme for the most part, but people respected (also feared) law enforcers. People would think tiwce, people wouldn't run out on the streets rioting and people from other countries wouldn't even think about forcing their rules and laws upon any country he ruled in. Today's governments and political systems are weak, the radical Islam followers are aware of this and are using it against us. We tolerate far too much, if Hitler was still around and still had his power and army, he would cleanse Europe easily within a month of this retarded bullshit that is going on around it. I'm not a racist and Hitler surely isn't my idol, but in the 21st century we may be civilized, but sometimes I believe that certain aproaches from the past should still be used, at least temporary, to bring back order and peace and eridicate those who threaten it in extreme ways.

#1516655 by beblebox (Power User) at 2013-01-17 22:12:37 (6 months ago) - [Report]

I remember when I lived in Camden Town, London a few years back. Never saw any muslims but every sunday around noon there was this religious fundamentalist that was chasing people around with a megaphone screaming about their sins.

I didn�t care that much about that he thought everything was a sin but I hated waking up at noon after working all night in a nightclub. And not only that but my boss was all like "you not only have to work hard but you need to play hard" forcing us all to drink copious amounts of free alcohol every weekend.

Sunday morning, young beblebox, Waking up really hungover, it is in the middle of the summer and hot as hell. But when you open up the window all you hear is this guy complaining about all hard-rockers and their sins AND HE HAS A MEGAPHONE!

This is the very guy I am talking about:

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.

My point is that just because a dude in London want these laws doesn�t mean every Muslim wants them and absolutely not every immigrant.

Last edited by beblebox at 2013-01-18 03:30:55

#1516657 by DXC Donor

(The King) at 2013-01-17 22:26:02 (6 months ago) - [Report]

beblebox wrote:

My point is that just because a dude in London want these laws doesn�t mean every Muslim wants them and absolutely not every immigrant.

So filter out the bad ones and the problem will solve itself. Don't remove them from the group and the problem will become bigger and bigger. One crazy guy on a bicycle with a beard who's holding a sign with a religious phrase on it is something barely anyone will be worried about, especially if it's someone from the local town who was born and raised there. But people stopping others and forbidding them things in their face in an agressive way is another thing, especially when their nationality and religion isn't the most popular in the world, it frightens people as well.

#1516658 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2013-01-17 22:38:12 (6 months ago) - [Report]

@dxc

Muslims (from Bosnia) did join the Waffen-SS. I wouldn't be so sure that Hitler would betray his allies. Maybe other Muslim countries in the Middle East such as Egypt, but a Muslim Bosnia for example, no. The kind of socialism that Hitler fought for and the kind of theocracy, ummah, that Islam aims to create is comparable in many ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah

I also think he would have stopped, if he had been successful (and the Japanese would have taken US), after taking Russia, England and Palestine. Hitler and his successors definitely wouldn't have allowed multiculturalism, sure, but he would have stopped free thought, democracy, as well. I'd rather have that to fight for now than national-socialism. Also glad the commies didn't win..

But yes, contemporary EU governments are weak and do seem for the most part to think that cultural difference are miniscule and that all cultures can live side by side easily. It is very difficult to convince them they are wrong, very difficult to affect public opinion without being considered a racist and a demagog in this way. Thankfully, it is beginning to change at least in Scandinavia.

#1516659 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2013-01-17 22:41:27 (6 months ago) - [Report]

beblebox wrote:

My point is that just because a dude in London want these laws doesn�t mean every Muslim wants them and absolutely not every immigrant.

the problem is it always seems as if moderate (if there is really such a thing) Muslims will always side with the extremist before they side with non Muslims when push comes to shove.

#1516663 by beblebox (Power User) at 2013-01-17 23:03:30 (6 months ago) - [Report]

DXC wrote:

So filter out the bad ones and the problem will solve itself. Don't remove them from the group and the problem will become bigger and bigger.

The News Article wrote:

Those involved are thought to be a part of an extremist network in East London and not linked to the wider Muslim community in the local area.

I say it is all scare propaganda and that the people around them would stop them if they did that. I also see religion as something that is going to disappear with the enlightenment that is coming from science. In almost every church you go to in Sweden they wont even fill the first five rows and I would guess its the same in all of Europe. Muslims are building mosques, sure. But it is not even 1% of the amount of churches that exists and they will soon be empty as well.

And on a side note being black in London is like being black in USA or France. Your family probably arrived a few hundred years back and it would be pretty silly moving back to Africa.

qbert95 wrote:

the problem is it always seems as if moderate (if there is really such a thing) Muslims will always side with the extremist before they side with non Muslims when push comes to shove.

I don't think so. I think most Muslims today in the western world don�t talk about religion and I can understand why. I've met many Muslims in my days and I have talked to them about philosophy and morality and not many of them support the wearing of veils and only one I have met actually wanted a Muslim state and to be honest he really wasn�t the sharpest knife in the box. But when someone create a "us" and "them" scenario they are going to force some people to become "them" and by some kind of magic they will form their opinions that they have gotten just because they felt like they needed to protect their freedom to begin with.

Last edited by beblebox at 2013-01-18 00:01:47

#1516674 by tidus (Power User) at 2013-01-18 00:20:07 (6 months ago) - [Report]

hOG wrote:

@dxc

Muslims (from Bosnia) did join the Waffen-SS.

source ?

#1516690 by Arnemes (Power User) at 2013-01-18 02:12:05 (6 months ago) - [Report]

tidus wrote:

hOG wrote:

@dxc

Muslims (from Bosnia) did join the Waffen-SS.

source ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffe … roatian%29

#1516691 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2013-01-18 02:27:48 (6 months ago) - [Report]

tidus wrote:

hOG wrote:

@dxc

Muslims (from Bosnia) did join the Waffen-SS.

source ?

really wouldn't be shocking that people from every group outside of jews and gypsies joined the SS since it gave young men a taste of real power in very unstable times. When the world is going to hell and the devil offers you a job a whole lot of people are going to take it.

#1516692 by Inspiration (Power User) at 2013-01-18 02:40:38 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Ehh... how did this discussion go from current day events in the UK to how people from the Balkans joined the SS some 70 years ago?

#1516693 by tidus (Power User) at 2013-01-18 03:03:51 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Arnemes wrote:

tidus wrote:

hOG wrote:

@dxc

Muslims (from Bosnia) did join the Waffen-SS.

source ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffe … roatian%29

thx

@ DXC

Just what would Hitler do? You can't really be saying Hitler did good by exterminating Jews and others. Do you really wish for the extermination of Muslims? What exactly are you saying? Wishing for a Hitler is an unbelievably disgusting thing and grossly offensive.

#1516708 by THEBiZ (User) at 2013-01-18 10:20:28 (6 months ago) - [Report]

I would love all muslims "exterminated", all catholics "exterminated", all budhists, all hindus, etc... By saying exterminated, i'm obviously figuratively speaking.

Wishing for another HItler is only a thing said by ppl that can't really measure what they say...

Anyway, today's world has come to a conclusion that being non religious is actually a-ok... No one dies for being a non believer, there obviously is no bogey man, we don't really believe that we'll die and go to hell or heaven, that's obvious a lot of bullshit and religious ppl are slowly turning against that fear factor that is still allowed in today's society and abandoning religion altogether. You can see it happening everyday in every church of the world's modern countries! Even on the US, i would say!

The religious manuscripts have been ridiculed and proven wrong in many different aspects, they have also been thoroughly exposed for being contradictory, even hypocritical at times! These things are transversal to all religious manuscripts of all religions, for the simple fact that they're all the same thing. It's the same novel with other protagonists and a slightly different story, but in the end it's a book of the exact same "literary genre" and for serving exactly the same purposes of controlling and flocking ppl.

If religion wants to have a chance, they need to write new bibles, new Qurans, new whatevers, but this time for educated ppl. For ppl with access to information, with access to advanced science, technology, with access to information that can put what's being read under constant judgement... They would have to cut out all the bullshit obviously! All the sheep hearding crap that's filling up the books and they would be left out with only 2 or 3 pages stating the exact same principles of normal common sense, normal common moral values, a whole lot of nothing that everybody already knows and that doesn't need to be applyed to or enforced by any god in particular... At all!

Last edited by THEBiZ at 2013-01-18 10:34:39

#1516712 by DXC Donor

(The King) at 2013-01-18 10:44:21 (6 months ago) - [Report]

tidus wrote:

Just what would Hitler do? You can't really be saying Hitler did good by exterminating Jews and others. Do you really wish for the extermination of Muslims? What exactly are you saying? Wishing for a Hitler is an unbelievably disgusting thing and grossly offensive.

Hitler did wrong by blaming the Jews and trying to exterminate them. I'm not talking about regular muslims, but the extreme radical ones. Those that also could be described as completely brainwashed who do the killing for their so called good reasons.

You should see what all this multicultralism bullshit is causing, for example here in NL, it causes nothing but trouble. Like I said: I'm not a rasist, but the people who come here should integrate and respect our way of doing things and adapt to it. If they can't or simply don't want, they either have two choices: put up with it and shut up or leave the country and go somewhere else. Especially muslims are causing trouble here in NL. The first thing they say when they can't get something done: we're racists, we don't respect them.

They come here, abuse the system, cause trouble, and nothing is being done against them. The police fears them, the government fears them and in the end the law itself fears them. Go up against them and 20 of them show up on your doorstep the next day, they don't care about using violence, it's for the greater good they say, to teach us some respect for their culture and religion.

If you are a muslim and you integrate, the others who don't will become angry at you, how fucking fucked up is that. They ruin it for the good ones this way. Dutch people don't even want to live in those neighborhoods anymore where they live now, they're being terrorized by 13 year old kids. The system fails, the law fails, it threatens our entire culture and believes and we simply allow it... Or better said: the government does, the people are done with it. A clean sweep of those radicals wouldn't hurt the country, it would solve a lot of problems, even for the good muslims. I wouldn't mind if Hitler would rise up for a month and sweep those radicals out of Europe entirely and then go back to being dead.

#1516714 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2013-01-18 10:55:10 (6 months ago) - [Report]

Quote:

I don't think so.

I have not seen a single mass demonstration where "moderate" muslims in sweden are rallying against the antisemitism their radical brothers are practising.
I have not seen a single mass demonstration where "moderate" muslims is england are rallying against those who openly provide hate speeches and are doing things like hOG posted.
etc. etc.
What I have seen is mass demonstrations with signs demanding beheading,telling europe to fuck off,demanding the removal of free speech etc. when some individual from west makes youtube video or draws a cartoon.
I have also seen the green left making excuses and condemning those (as islamofobics) who dare to critisize muslims in any way.
The change must come within, but with islam thats not gonna happen, unfortunately if the change is forced to come from outside (the outside society/world has had enough and won't take bullying anymore), it usually means bad things, and currently that is how I see the end result.
And I don't want that, muslims should have the same rights as everybody else, no less, no more, the same, but currently that is not enough for them.

Multiculturalism is fine, it's great in many cases. But it requires two things. The cultures which are mixing must have similar understanding of the grounding rules (freedoms,liberties,values etec.), then the mixing goes well, there are no conflicts which concern the groundstone stuff, the mixing happens in everyday level (customs,food,clothing,language,traditions etc.), and thats nice, it richens the society.
If the groundstone stuff between the cultures is very different (like it is between muslims and western world), then it requires that one of the sides adapts and integrates by accepting and honoring the groundstone values of the side which they come into, otherwise it's not multiculturalism, its two cultures living their separeate lives in the same area, having conflicts all the time.
Imo thats the situation with muslims in europe today.
And that situation will lead to a huge conflict, sooner or later, or it will lead to a situation where muslim culture will be the culture we adapt and integrate to. Both options are bad, but I know the side I will take when it is time to choose.
Judging by the actions of current european leaders, I don't really know their stand.

Quote:

I'm not talking about regular muslims, but the extreme radical ones. Those that also could be described as completely brainwashed who do the killing for their so called good reasons.

Obama is currently doing the hitler job you descibed. He has killed tons of extreme leader figures with drone attacks (and ofcourse the main man with seals), he has even killed muslim US citizens that way.

Last edited by sniperfin at 2013-01-18 10:58:52

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