Protests in The ME and Africa

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(Mad Ultra Mod) at 2012-09-14 22:57:24 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

dodeliatcha wrote:

Btw, nobody answered by question about war on Iran, will the american accept another war? by borrowing trillions with interest rate from China, will China grows unchecked and props up anti-american regimes around the world.?

no...let Isreal turn it into the worlds largest radioactive glass parking lot. Fuck the ME let it all burn and we can pick up the pieces. The US should only use it's military when someone directly threatens us which currently only China really has the capability to do

#1497698 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2012-09-15 00:36:35 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

VeryBadGuy wrote:

dodeliatcha wrote:

agreed. If Iran is such a threat to the very survival of Israel than they should launch a nuclear strike on those fortified bunkers and turn every last shred of paper there to ashes. Even with China they still don't even rule their own hemisphere and are pretty much surrounded themselves with adversaries like Russia, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, India, etc. to be a real threat to the US. The only real danger the US has right now to our nation is Mexico with its drug lords almost running the country and its people flooding ours.

#1497709 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2012-09-15 01:47:40 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

Situation is bad, I am a humanist, a real one, but I would not share a tear if israel nuken iran (or any other country lead by extreme muslims).
I am truly sad about that. Perhaps its my old age, but I just cant keep up the "we all are humans and we all are equal" shit anymore.
I want liberty and true equall rights for evryone the true freedom of expression where you can shout you opinion (even when it is wrong. Like hOG with god), but as long as islam is in the picture it just cant happen, that is what the evidence shosws, the evidence we all see every day.
I know many people who are islamic, but unfortunately the actions of the followers is something I loathe and I am sorry that they follow the same shit as the lunatics who are ruining the world.
Do something, raise your voice and act. otherwise don't ask for my sympathy when your guys bomb and kill people. Do something, or shut up and meet your maker.

#1497711 by warduke Donor

(Power User) at 2012-09-15 02:03:30 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

It will happen, but it will take time. Just as all of our countries took time.

#1497718 by DrevoKocour (Power User) at 2012-09-15 07:17:04 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

I have my doubts about the Islamic world evolving into something at least somehow resembling our current society in terms of liberty and rights and general opinions on major issues. The two societies are not equal, they are not comparable, they have at their very cores vastly different sets of beliefs and more importantly thought patterns.

Europe was shaped by its Judeo-Christian and Greek roots, this has influenced not just some marginal religious topics or our art, but the very definition of thought and its application, it has created our philosophy, politics, ethics... and, by extension, the society and values as we know them today.

I don't think any amounts of importing these so called western values to Arabic countries can substitute the lengthy and Europe-specific process described above, the process which led to these values being developed and forming the pillars of our lives in the first place. We walk on land and breathe air, and are foolishly asking the fish to do the same.

#1497720 by alupigus (Lumberjack) at 2012-09-15 08:35:31 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

DrevoKocour wrote:

I don't think any amounts of importing these so called western values to Arabic countries can substitute the lengthy and Europe-specific process described above, the process which led to these values being developed and forming the pillars of our lives in the first place. We walk on land and breathe air, and are foolishly asking the fish to do the same.

+1 ..you hit the right nail here.

#1497727 by DrevoKocour (Power User) at 2012-09-15 09:50:02 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

Now don't get me wrong, this is no speaking in defence of a different culture whose many aspects we find awful to say the least, no bleeding heart liberal call for everyone to accept their differences and do a group hug, nothing of the sort.

Just that we still seem to be approaching this problem - both 'we' as in you and me, individuals with a western background, as well as 'we' as Europe/the US, the politicians and the like - from our viewpoint, we try to apply our patterns and views onto a system not fully compatible with them.

And then when faced with this obstacle it often seems as if there are only two choices. Either our values are dropped altogether and we are supposed to accommodate - possibly as a result of their liberality and malleability, or there is no middle ground and it is either our way or else. The world tries to foster democracy in the Middle East - and it gets countries run by the Muslim Brotherhood. It bombs bad guys - and it gets more of them. Something has got to change.

#1497728 by mrunne (Power User) at 2012-09-15 09:53:59 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

The problem with Islam evolving into something better is that it has already had a lot of time to do so. And that in itself is evidence enough that it never will evolve into something better.

#1497752 by dodeliatcha (User) at 2012-09-15 13:58:55 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

Most of you make compelling cases.

I thought globalization was going to solve our problem of intolerance

... Slowly.

Faster travel, more frequent, more international contacts. Faster and more accessible internet. Satellites, etc.
Huge increases in population..

This does not necessarily translate into tolerance, acceptance and high living standards, but still.. lets hope it does more good than harm.

I am counting on the fact that it is very likely to be a strong force, that cannot be fought. No matter how hard you try. Only postponed or delayed. A force that will eventually break through..

#1497769 by warduke Donor

(Power User) at 2012-09-15 15:14:21 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

I don't buy into that myself. People are, at the core, all the same(even the crazy murderous ones). People are not born with hate, they are taught by their elders and their own experiences in life. They may not adopt to how the west does things, but their current state will not survive in this globalized world. We may not live to see it, but it will surely come. The very best we can do is leave them to figure that out on their own. Not poke them with a stick because we disagree with them.

#1497775 by mbodnar (Airborne Mod) at 2012-09-15 15:44:02 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

We can't let MENA flounder itself into oblivion, western economy's are fueled by their resources. Until we take full advantage of our own (that means oil, gas and nuclear not fantasy fuels), we are forced to be involved.

#1497780 by DrevoKocour (Power User) at 2012-09-15 16:18:27 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

warduke wrote:

...their current state will not survive in this globalized world. We may not live to see it, but it will surely come...

Why not? I was not talking merely about how they blow themselves and others up, but about their lives in general. Why couldn't they keep what we might perceive as various fundamentalist dictatorships with limited freedoms, but what is for a seemingly big part of their population an acceptable and welcome way to live, with sharia and Islam and local customs and everything? In some cases, a way of life so acceptable that they carry it with them when they move to western countries with little regard for many of these countries' values.

What will effect a change this big if some of the people seem to be content with their way of doing things? I am not speaking for everyone, of course, but we have seen the Arab Spring and it was not a spring of western democracy, was it. What will be this intangible agent of change?

It does not seem it will be the west or its values in their current form, as the past several years, decades really, have shown. And as I said in the previous paragraph, it does not look like this change will come from within either. Not in the foreseeable future anyway - you say 'we may not live to see it' but that is a cheap way out, of course things are bound to change after an unspecified amount of time.

Funny mbodnar should point out the resources argument - if anything, lowering western reliance on fuel sources from the region, its key export, will result in a massive shakeup of frankly hard to imagine proportions. More than any mythical change that 'must' and 'will' come. And even then, perhaps more than before, should we remember that change is not always good.

#1497791 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2012-09-15 17:58:42 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

DrevoKocour wrote:

Funny mbodnar should point out the resources argument - if anything, lowering western reliance on fuel sources from the region, its key export, will result in a massive shakeup of frankly hard to imagine proportions. More than any mythical change that 'must' and 'will' come. And even then, perhaps more than before, should we remember that change is not always good.

what if we do actually manage to have a real impact on oil exports of these countries. If you think the illegal immigration to Europe by Muslims is bad now wait until those economies crumble you will get Mexican levels that we have in the US. The level of social instability from the cultural divide that it will create will set europe on fire.

#1497795 by warduke Donor

(Power User) at 2012-09-15 18:11:56 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

All of these things just happened within the last year though. It took my country longer than that to get setup and we had lots of violent outbreaks. We'd string up or shoot many that were thought to have played both sides against the middle or were flat out supporting the British. Even when we had a formal government in place, it was highly flawed. We even had a Representative beat a Senator with a cane on the floor of the U.S. Senate over a speech on slavery.

#1497843 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2012-09-16 00:12:52 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

The countdown has begun...

Armada massing as 'Israel prepares Iran strike'

Quote:

In preparation for any pre-emptive or retaliatory action by Iran, warships from more than 25 countries, including the United States, Britain, France, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, will today begin an annual 12-day exercise.

The war games are the largest ever undertaken in the region.

Israel will drag us into this whether we like it or not

#1497846 by warduke Donor

(Power User) at 2012-09-16 00:17:01 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

I have no doubts on that if it happens.

#1497857 by mbodnar (Airborne Mod) at 2012-09-16 01:36:59 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

$4.19/gal and rising.......

#1497876 by bolg (Power User) at 2012-09-16 09:54:32 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

Interesting bit from the Egypft Independent:

A day at the protests at the American Embassy in Cairo wrote:

Misguided as their efforts may be � like most protesters at the scene, Ibrahim believes �The Innocence of Muslims� is a Hollywood production that, like any local or international film released in Egypt, and presumably elsewhere, passes through several rounds of censorship and receives official state approval from its own government before seeing the light of day � there is little doubt over the severity of the situation, and its potential fallout. Already, yet another wall has been erected by security forces at the head of the street leading to the embassy in order to keep groups of Egyptians from murdering each other and deepening an international crisis, and the downtown stretch between Tahrir and the US Embassy is back to looking like a war zone, developments which don�t seem to have had any effect in sobering up infuriated protestors.

[...]

To his left, his colleague asks, �What prophet? You think any of these people care about religion?� He turned to Egypt Independent and added, �You�d think these were the most pious people on Earth, but we were here for dawn prayers and we can tell you not a single one of them stopped throwing rocks long enough to pray.�

Since no one seems to know it's a simple production on YouTube, who is inticing the mob? And why isn't the Egyptian government more interested in curbing the riots?

#1497880 by DrevoKocour (Power User) at 2012-09-16 10:56:21 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

qbert95 wrote:

That does sound most likely, immigration will skyrocket and with it who knows what sort of measures will European nations come up with. I wouldn't be afraid of calling an eventual - more so if relatively sudden - end of reliance on Arab oil an unprecedented moment of historical change. Not because of some ecological or scientific impacts, but the geopolitical ramifications. Then again I don't really expect the world to suddenly come up with a magical replacement for fossil fuels so it's all a bit of a fantasy really.

#1498201 by qbert95 (Power User) at 2012-09-19 00:18:13 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

French Mag to Publish Cartoons of Prophet Mohammed

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The magazine �Charlie Hebdo� has confirmed that it will publish the cartoons, but has not revealed what they will depict. French newspaper �Le Monde� reports that some of the cartoons show the prophet in �particularly explicit poses,� without providing any further detail.

Surprisingly the article says that it is a left leaning publication. BTW no word yet as to how Romney is to be blamed for this.

#1498205 by bolg (Power User) at 2012-09-19 00:29:25 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

qbert95 wrote:

French Mag to Publish Cartoons of Prophet Mohammed

Quote:

Surprisingly the article says that it is a left leaning publication. BTW no word yet as to how Romney is to be blamed for this.

Well there's always been issues between the extreme left-wing (maoists, leninists, stalinists, anarchists etc) and religion.

Considering the amount of muslims in France this could get very messy. Especially with the economy as it is.

#1498233 by sniperfin (Camo admin) at 2012-09-19 08:35:57 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

Something a bit less serious about the subject

Quote:

Protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning American flag
Burning an American flag proved fatal for a Pakistani protester, who reportedly died from inhaling fumes from the ignited icon of independence.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/18 … ican-flag/

That's darwin award material.

#1498234 by alupigus (Lumberjack) at 2012-09-19 08:40:00 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

sniperfin wrote:

Something a bit less serious about the subject

Quote:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/18 … ican-flag/

That's darwin award material.

#1498260 by bolg (Power User) at 2012-09-19 13:20:24 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

This image has been resized, click here to view the full-sized image.

http://gawker.com/5857336/worlds-ballsi … -its-cover

#1498271 by hOG (Crusader Mod) at 2012-09-19 14:44:38 (10 months ago) - [Quote] - [Report]

bolg wrote:

qbert95 wrote:

French Mag to Publish Cartoons of Prophet Mohammed

Quote:

Surprisingly the article says that it is a left leaning publication. BTW no word yet as to how Romney is to be blamed for this.

Well there's always been issues between the extreme left-wing (maoists, leninists, stalinists, anarchists etc) and religion.

Issues? Issues? Okay.. that's an understatement. Maoists, Leninist, Stalinist - wanted the same as far as religion was concerned. Abolition of, followed by the persecution of, resulting in the slaughter and death of religious. Anarchists, today little children in black clothes who throws rocks at the authorities, but in the 20th century increasingly violent fuckers who blew up shit left and right across continental Europe, particular France and Russia. Hardly about issues.

But left-wing means here socialist-democrats - leftists with a shred of courage than their other left-leaning cousins. Good on Charlie Hebdo to publish it :thumbsup:

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